Bergen County Employees Owed 470 Years Worth Of Unused Time
County's total liability nears $54 million to its 2,754 employees
Employees of Bergen County government each get 12 sick days per year. Whatever they don’t use, they accumulate, year after year, over the course of their careers.
At the start of 2011, the county’s 2,754 employees had banked 171,505 sick and vacation days, or 470 years worth, according to the county budget. And banked is the appropriate term, because most of those days likely will be cashed in when the employees retire.
The county’s 2011 budget puts the potential cost for those days at $54.2 million.
That’s a startling number compared to what other New Jersey counties project as their sick and vacation liability. A Patch survey of the budgets of New Jersey’s counties shows that Bergen’s liability for employee sick and vacation time is more than twice as large as any other county.
The closest counties are Middlesex at $24.7 million, Hudson at $23.7 million, and Mercer at $16.8 million. In fact, Bergen County's liability in this area is about equal to the combined total for Essex, Hudson, Morris, Ocean, Somerset and Union counties.
Some officials suggest that Bergen County’s bill for sick and vacation time is larger than other counties simply because Bergen is the state’s largest. But the numbers don’t bear that out. Three counties have more employees than does Bergen, according to statistics provided by the New Jersey Association of Counties (NJAC).
Moreover, Bergen County’s average potential payment per employee is more than 50 percent higher than that of any other county, according to Patch’s analysis of the budget data. The numbers put Bergen County’s average possible payout at $19,686 per employee. The next highest number is $11,777 per employee for Middlesex County.
Freeholder Finance Chairman John Mitchell said the board is planning to take an in-depth look at payroll issues in the coming months as it prepares for its 2012 budget.
“This has to be part of the entire equation,’’ Mitchell said of the sick and vacation time. “It’s going to be one of the areas we target.’’
“This is a very difficult subject to get a handle on because it takes a great deal of supervision, accountability and culture change,’’ said State Senator Loretta Weinberg, who had proposed bill to tighten regulations on public employee leave time.
“Sick time should not be an entitlement that you add on to your vacation,’’ Weinberg added. “Sick time is supposed to be there for employees when they are legitimately sick.’’
Here are some of the other findings of Patch’s budget survey on sick and vacation pay liability:
- The average value of Bergen County employees’ leave time is $316 per day. Only employees in Monmouth County have leave days with a higher value than that, with an average of $339 per day. In Essex, the average value of leave days is $262, in Hudson $222 and in Middlesex $231.
- Bergen County’s law enforcement employees have some of the most valuable accumulations of leave time. The potential total payment for regular Bergen County Sheriff’s officers is $13.6 million; for the county police, it’s $5.9 million; and for rank-and-file prosecutor’s officers it’s also $5.9 million.
- The law enforcement employees also have the highest potential payouts per day. Deputy chiefs in the prosecutor’s office stand to collect $632 per accumulated day, county police are looking at $516 per day and rank-and-file sheriff’s officers $423 per day. In comparison, members of New Jersey Employment Labor Union Local #1, which represents elections workers, has the lowest average per day payment at $117.
- Bergen County also tops the state when leave time liability figures are compared to the overall county budget. In Bergen, the liability reflects about 10.5 percent of the budget. Warren County has the next closest percentage at 8.7 percent. In most counties, the potential sick and vacation time expense equates to less than five percent of the budget.
The $54 million is not a bill that will come due all at once. The number shows how much the county would have to pay all current employees when they retire, based on the number of leave days they had accumulated entering this year. In effect, it’s a bill that county taxpayers will pay off in small increments week after week over the course of decades.
Sometimes, though, those small increments become rather large.
“We’ve all read those stories of people being paid in excess of $100,000, $200,000 when they retire,” said John Donnadio, executive director of New Jersey’s county government association.
As a result, Donnadio said, most local governments have imposed limits on how much money employees can collect on leave time when they retire. Those limits vary from town to town and from county to county. They sometimes also vary within the same government structure.
Weinberg said Bergen County adopted limits on sick and vacation time payment more than 20 years ago, long before most other places in New Jersey.
Under the initial limits, Dispoto said, law enforcement employees could cash in a maximum of $25,000 worth of leave time, workers in some civilian unions had a cap of $20,000 and others had a $15,000 limit, said Dispoto.
In an effort to make the payments more uniform, in 2007 Bergen County adopted a new $15,000 limit for all its workers, Dispoto said.
But in reality, things aren’t that standardized. That’s largely because of grandfather clauses that were included when the limits were imposed.
In short, employees are entitled to keep whatever off-days they had accumulated up to the time when the caps went into effect, officials said. On top of that, they then were able to accumulate a new bank of leave time within the new cap, officials said.
As a result, long-time employees are allowed to cash in banked time that far exceeds the value of the limits that are in place, officials said.
Weinberg said public employees often find ways to circumvent the spirit of the limits. For example, she said, a worker getting ready to retire who has 60 days worth of accumulated time above the threshold of the $15,000 payment cap calls in “quote unquote sick for 60 days.”
State employees are allowed to cash in a maximum of $15,000 in leave time under a policy that includes a grandfather clause similar to the one in Bergen County, officials said.
But the state does not set standardized limits on how much local government employees can collect in unused sick and vacation time.
Weinberg said many of the abuses of sick and vacation payments come at the local government level.
“I’ve never seen a police chief, town manager, or school superintendent take a vacation or sick day before they retire and they end up with these big checks,’’ the senator said. “They’re either the most healthy people in the world, or they love their work so much they can’t bear to be away from it.’’
For high-ranking local officials, Weinberg said there’s very little oversight to confirm the legitimacy of their accumulated time.
“They’re the ones who sign off on their own payroll,’’ she said. “There’s a lot of room for abuse.’’
The state requires that local governments report in their budgets the potential cost of the accumulated leave time payments, but it does not regulate the amounts of those payments, officials said.
“We do not evaluate if they are ‘too high,’ ‘too low,’ or ‘just right,’ since there is no standard or requirement,’’ said Lisa Ryan, spokeswoman for the New Jersey Department of Community Affairs. “We can only require the disclosure.”
Various efforts by state legislators to impose limits on sick and vacation time payments for local government employee have failed.
“There is a bill pending in the Legislature that would impose limits,’’ Ryan said, “but it was conditionally vetoed by Governor Christie to make it stronger. It has yet to be re-considered.”
In his veto, Christie called for these measures:
- Employees convicted of crimes involving their public office would forfeit their accumulated time and not be paid for it.
- A phase-out of the practice of allowing employees to be paid for accumulated sick time so that eventually newly-hired workers would no longer receive the lump sum payments when they retire.
- A requirement that employees use up previous years’ sick and vacation time before they can use new allotments of days. This proposal was designed to reduce the large amounts of leave time that public workers accumulated before any new limits on retirement payments were imposed.
In Bergen County, the calculation of the $54 million in leave time liability does not take into account the $15,000 per person limit, along with all its permutations, Dispoto said. So the potential expense if all employees were to suddenly retire would turn out to be somewhat less than $54 million, officials said. But the county has not done the math to determine exactly how much it’s on the hook for, officials said.
Most of the $54 million worth of accumulated leave time covers sick days. Employees are allowed to carry over just one year’s worth of vacation time, which is a maximum of 20 days, Dispoto said.
Over the past three years, the number of days off that Bergen County workers accumulated has decreased. It went from 176,091 in 2009, to 174,008 in 2010, to 171,505 in 2011.
But that hasn’t produced a reduction in the bottom line. The potential liability has grown by 5.6 percent, rising from $51.3 million in 2009 to $53 million in 2010 to $54.2 million in 2011.
“That’s because the salaries have increased,’’ Dispoto said.
Donna Colucci
8:39 am on Sunday, October 30, 2011
That is absolutely absurd...USE THEM or LOSE THEM.........
GNOBIE01
9:01 am on Sunday, October 30, 2011
WHEN WE USE THEM...WE ARE INVESTIGATED FOR ABUSE OF SICK TIME...DAMMNED IF WE DO DAMMNED IF WE DON'T....THAT IS NOT ABSURD...THAT IS STUPIDITY...MAKE UP YOUR DAMN MIND BERGEN COUNTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Andy Schmidt
8:27 am on Monday, October 31, 2011
Sick days are not an investment vehicle - they are a matter of employee "care", so that they don't lose their pay while physically unable to work.
Like anywhere else - when you use them, bring a Doctor's note. When you don't have to use them, be happy for having been healthy all year.
Most of us don't take sick days all year - and that's a GOOD thing. We don't expect to get PAID for our good fortune. This tax-payer rip-off has to end.
Kelly Van Rijn
2:02 pm on Saturday, January 14, 2012
What a scam. I wonder how many private sector employees get such lucrative benefits? So long as the Democratic party and their public sector unions lackeys keep screwing the taxpayer, nothing will ever change. I just wonder how many private sector workers out there take 12 sick days a year? Maybe one or two for appointments, but 12? And if you don't take them, you can cash them in? This is criminal fraud perpetrated on the poor taxpayer that has to fund this scam. I am so sick and tired of paying for these lazy public sector employees. And for all the Bergen county cops out there, please don't tell me how hard you work. If you wanted to do real policing, you would be in Newark or New York, not sitting in your cars making OT while watching the PSE&G guy string cable.
delgado
4:10 pm on Saturday, January 14, 2012
Unions demanded it and the Unions supported double dipper Donovan. So the corrupt Bergen Republicans will never change this waste of our dollars.
Josh Hosseinof
8:53 am on Sunday, October 30, 2011
The last sentence is one of the key points in the article - "That's because the salaries have increased" - Each year these liabilities to the local governments increase, even if the number of banked days is unchanged. That's because the sick day the employee earned when he was making $30,000 10 years ago, is now worth double that if he's currently making $60,000. Until these banked days are phased out this is a liability that will keep on growing, even if no additional days can be added to the bank.
O.J
9:01 am on Sunday, October 30, 2011
This is what happens when Unions take over the government. All they want are things for themselves, instead of working to help things run right. Unions have more say and power than the government. In the real world, no one accumulates all of their unused days. Those days are not due to anyone since they are put in place in thr event that you are sick, or want to take a vacation, NOT SO YOU CAN KEEP THEM FOREVER! These morons want to get paid for doing nothing, and blame the towns for increased taxes
GNOBIE01
9:08 am on Sunday, October 30, 2011
OBVIOUSLY YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARETALKING ABOUT OJ.....YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT WE DO... SO WHY NOT KEEP YOUR OPINIONS PRIVATE RATHER THEN LET PEOPLE KNOW JUST HOW LITTLE YOU DO KNOW
Kelly Van Rijn
2:03 pm on Saturday, January 14, 2012
Here, here! Another taxpayer who has had it with the lazy, scamming unions.
Nancy
9:11 am on Sunday, October 30, 2011
This is totally crazy, If you're not sick then don't take sick days. Period. You should be investigated if you take sick days and you just want to lounge around the house or go shopping. SICK DAYS are for SICK DAYS. Get it!
GNOBIE01
9:20 am on Sunday, October 30, 2011
NO KIDDING...THAT IS HOW LARGE AMOUNTS OF SICK HOURS ARE ACCUMULATED....SO IF I DO N'T CALL OUT SICK...YOU WAN'T TO TAKE THE SICK TIME AWAY???....USE THEM OR LOSE THEM????...MAKE UP YOUR MIND!!!!!!!!
GNOBIE01
9:14 am on Sunday, October 30, 2011
NO KIDDING...THAT IS HOW LARGE AMOUNTS OF SICK HOURS ARE ACCUMULATED....SO IF I DO N'T CALL OUT SICK...YOU WAN'T TO TAKE THE SICK TIME AWAY???....USE THEM OR LOSE THEM????...MAKE UP YOUR MIND!!!!!!!!
Kelly Van Rijn
2:05 pm on Saturday, January 14, 2012
Yes, you should get two days. That's it. Why should you sit at home watchingTV when you aren't sick just to 'use them'. Why should I have to buy out your sick days so you don't 'lose them'? FRAUD!
bugman87
9:21 am on Sunday, October 30, 2011
What's with the caps, dude? Obviously you are an entrenched, government union stooge who has no idea how the real world works. I get 5 suck days a year. I am paid out 50 percent for each day I do not use at the beginning of each calendar year. It works. Time the government catches up with corporate America by shedding unnecessary employees like you who think they are entitled to jobs and by reducing their liabilities with simple measures like annual sick time payouts.
But that's only my 2 cents.
B@B
1:03 pm on Monday, October 31, 2011
I'm not in favor of the "I got screwed in the private sector and now I want you to get screwed too" doctrine, but there are other ways to deal with this. I used to work for a state agency (not in NJ where the value of your unused sick time, up to a certain number of hours, paid for your retiree medical premiums. The amount of accumulated time credited was capped at a set number of hours, and this way it wasn't a lump sum of cash. I thought this was a good way to handle it.
Nancy
9:22 am on Sunday, October 30, 2011
oh and by the way GNOBIEO1, since you brought it up, what exactly do you do??? WE ALL WANT TO KNOW.
GNOBIE01
9:30 am on Sunday, October 30, 2011
do you have weekends and holidays off??...are you allowed to go home at the end of your shift?....does anyone in your workplace want to k9ill you for doing your job.....does anyone throw urine and feces at you...are you attacked and sent to the hospital icu by people around you....when you make a decsion..can you be sued for three million dollars???these and more occurr regularly at my job...that and more is what I get to look forward to on a NORMAL day....
GNOBIE01
9:36 am on Sunday, October 30, 2011
i have been told to work mandatory christmas day and eve...back to back....I don't get regular holidays off unless they are part of the rotation...I have seen my coworkers sent to the hospital frenquently for doing their job and the people who they were working with decided to injure them...I have fought hand to hand with a knife armed individual to protect another..and when we call out sick more than three days straight...we must obtain a doctors note to return to work or we can be suspended...remember the floods in hackensack???rememder the heavy snow storms whikle youy were safe at home...we had to get to work or be suspended and terminated according to the bosses..next year during your bareques...remember and be thankful for what we do rather than crucify us
Andy Schmidt
8:30 am on Monday, October 31, 2011
You get paid for doing your job. You decide to pursue a career or not based on the earnings. Salaries are for working on whatever days we are assigned to you, and for the working conditions we encounter. Yes, I get up in the middle of the night or weekends, when something goes wrong with the computer or network infrastructure that has to run 24x7.
Sick days and for being sick. How hard is that to comprehend.
Kelly Van Rijn
2:08 pm on Saturday, January 14, 2012
I am quite sure that for every day not spent with his family, GNOBIO1 is making OT or some other comp time scam. Please, nobody put a gun to your head to take whatever union public sector scam job you have. On the other, the government does put a gun to our heads to pay for your lavish benefits.
bugman87
9:22 am on Sunday, October 30, 2011
Before you jump all over me, I apologize for the typos. Sometimes its tough to type with 4 kids climbing all over me :)
GNOBIE01
9:22 am on Sunday, October 30, 2011
Gee dude...whish I had you payout.....we are not allowed to do that....
martysinnott
9:36 am on Sunday, October 30, 2011
What kind of a numbskull would negotiate a contract that permits an employee to accumulate "sick days", year after year after year,until death or "retirement" - perhaps a politician, 'er public servant, with a debt to pay?
GNOBIE01
9:40 am on Sunday, October 30, 2011
same politicians that won't pay us to use them or lose them
Nancy
10:29 am on Sunday, October 30, 2011
GNOBIEO1, do you remember what Gov. Chrisite said to a teacher that was complaining that she only gets paid $80,000 a year for 160 days less sick days and personal days, "if its so bad go look for another job" I suggest you do the same thing.
Kelly Van Rijn
2:11 pm on Saturday, January 14, 2012
I agree! This should also be a lesson to anyone who ever votes for a Democratic in Jersey- higher taxes thanks to higher pay and benefits lavished on public sector unions and employees.
Howard L. Pearl
11:02 am on Sunday, October 30, 2011
Unions negotiate the best terms possible for their members. Let's place the blame where it belongs, on the shoulders of our representatives, who sold us down the river with government employees receiving pensions and benefits that are bankrupting our state economy.
There are hardworking gov't employees and slackers, just like in any workplace. However, their base salaries are now competitive with the private sector and they can no longer use excess benefits as an offset. It is time for our representatives to take a more dedicated position to reversing these ludicrous contracts for gov't employees, to enable firing of incompetent employees with less obstacles, and to investigate this tragic anomaly in Bergen County.
BellairBerdan
11:04 am on Sunday, October 30, 2011
Unfortunately most people have no idea what it is to be a public employee. Just look at your average public servant. Do they look and dress like they are making $200K? In fact, most of them are making $20-40K living paycheck to paycheck. They are unable to put money away for a rainy day. Accumulating sick time is a life saver. I was a public employee. I was injured and was out of work for 8 weeks. If I was unable to use the sick time I accumulated I would have lost my home and car.
For 8 years my weekends were Tues and Weds. Only after that was I allowed ONE weekend day off. Unless a holiday fell on your normal day off you would never have it off, or compete with the 64 other ppl in the dept for one of the 2 extra slots for a big holiday. When a holiday fell on a weekend, management declares the holiday to be a Monday, so all the managers could get an extra day off. What that meant was the not only did people have to work the holiday, they were paid str8 time for doing so.
No public employee says you should not have weekends off, get a holiday bonus, get as much salary as you do or have holidays off for the sole reason they don't get it. But that is what the private sector's attitude is now. Luckily for Nancy most public servants like their job regardless of its pitfalls and will save her butt when she needs their help anyway.
Andy Schmidt
8:36 am on Monday, October 31, 2011
No, I don't begrudge anyone their salary.
But - it is outright wrong to pretend that the compensation is the "salary", which is what the public knows and see and is "approving" of. It is wrong to have hidden salaries like accumulated sick days (when sick days are intended to pay you while you are unable to work), retirement at near full salary at an age young enough to start a SECOND career (when retirement is intended to allow you to NOT be in economic distress when age prevents you from working), etc.
Sorry - but all this hiding away compensation in other area is deceitful and needs to stop. We can't have tax payers unable to afford their own retirement, or their health insurance, and thus even afford to become sick - because our income is taxed away NOT to maintain our infrastructure but to create these huge entitlement bubbles for public workers.
Kelly Van Rijn
2:14 pm on Saturday, January 14, 2012
What? Show me one cop or teacher who makes $20K a year! On the other hand, the vast majority of cops on bucolic Bergen County make well over $150K a year, with teachers pushing $100K a year. All paid for by an electorate that has no choice but to keep paying thanks to the Democratic political machine whose sole purpose is to stay in power by bribing the unions and the 'underprivileged' with more and more benefits.
Andy Schmidt
2:56 pm on Saturday, January 14, 2012
Hm, Kelly - I thought Republicans are running Bergen County (the focus of this article)? And (at least in the towns in my area, north of Paramus), Republicans run the town councils/mayors - and have for a long ttime. Yet, teacher, police and other public salaries seem to match the levels that you seem to object to?
Tony
12:18 pm on Sunday, October 30, 2011
New levels of stupidity. "Employees of Bergen County government each get 12 sick days per year. Whatever they don’t use, they accumulate, year after year, over the course of their careers." What a joke.
Um, here's the obvious answer (and welcome to the private/public business world circa 2000) PAID TIME OFF. No questions asked on vacation/sick/personal, a "use-it-or-lose-it policy," and serious limitations on annual carryover or payouts.
EASY - DONE
Typical public employee stupidity.
For people in the business world (aka the real world) it's like listening to the ultra rich complain about both of their Ferrari's being in the shop.
Grow up.
1richCOP
12:44 pm on Sunday, October 30, 2011
Haa, the Jealousy is seething here. I put my life on the line, my contract provides me with sick time, and I deserve it! Keep crying you losers!
ProtectUserveMe
6:16 pm on Sunday, October 30, 2011
HOORAH! 1RICH! I. Too made the right decision and scoff at the 9 to 5 losers...thats right s big lotto awaits at the end of the line....Oh yea, i forgot to mention that end will be before I'm 50
Tonto
12:47 am on Monday, October 31, 2011
Who is going to pay what can't be paid ?
Tony
7:08 am on Monday, October 31, 2011
Jealousy, losers? That's just stupid. That being said, putting your life on the line is very honorable. That goes with the territory of that line of work. And yet the fact still remains that BC is staggeringly worse than any other area in this matter. It's not about jealousy - it's about commons sense and gauging. As usual the blame sits squarely on the government for not regulating any of this - to some degree.
Earn some days. Get some payout. But to the tune of 470 years worth of unused time? And you're going to tell me you earned it? Sure, you "earned" it under a joke set of rules.
And now the government has to figure out some kind of payout for their stupidity using the taxpayers wallets as their own.
People need to wake up and realizes that this garbage is all connected.
Andy Schmidt
8:38 am on Monday, October 31, 2011
Time to move "Occupy Wall Street" to "Occupy Main Street" (or Court Street - or wherever these moronic entitlements are approved).
Frankly, I'm starting to see the point of Wisconsin's governor that this deserves a critical eye.
Hank
8:43 am on Monday, October 31, 2011
how did cops and teachers become the enemy?
Andy Schmidt
8:50 am on Monday, October 31, 2011
Cops and teachers are no enemy. However, compensation has to be transparent so that one can draw comparisons. Simple people like me look at the SALARIES, overtime pay etc and decide that these are either low, or appropriate etc for the benefits that we as tax-payers receive from those public services -- but then we learn about all these unusual perks that should all be counted TOWARDS salary.
Obvioulsy, if you can accumulate many tens of thousands of dollars for being healthy, and have cadillac health plans that no one else can afford, or have retirement options that are unheard of in the private sector, or have tenure to protect you against less than stellar performance -- then those need to be valued appropriately. So maybe salaries need to be 10, 20 or 50% less when figuring in all these entitlements.
Tonto
10:41 am on Monday, October 31, 2011
they got greedy........
Kelly Van Rijn
2:14 pm on Saturday, January 14, 2012
By making twice what the average taxpayer does while working half as hard.
Anna
10:13 am on Monday, October 31, 2011
I agree with Andy. And I have nothing against unions. Both my parents were union members, because unons were the only thing that back then protected working-class peope with low wages who did back-breaking labour in factories. But today's public servants don't fit in that category. They are not working class--the salaries of most of them put them squarely in the middle class and some in the upper middle class with all the extra compensation. Most private sector employees don't earn these salaries and certainly don't have the extra benefits like guaranteed pensions, accumulated sick and vacation time to add to their pot of gold, and sterling medical plans. And for all the cops out there: plenty of private sector workers also have to work on Christmas, New Year's Eve and other holidays, so don't cry about that. And plenty of people have dangerous jobs and don't get near the compensation and perks that Bergen Country police get (like New York City cops, for example!!) Benefits and compensation in the public sector should be much more comparable to what we get working out butts off for private companies.
BellairBerdan
10:35 am on Monday, October 31, 2011
Anna, it appears you are the one that is crying. If you think you deserve those same benefits, ask your employer for them. If you think that after working for the same employer for 35 years you deserve nothing more than a goodbye, you have a low self worth. The whole argument boils down to "I don't have it so neither should you, and don't dare ask for the same things I have."
Andy Schmidt
11:07 am on Monday, October 31, 2011
No, it's about perverting the system. Sick days are there so that you and your family are proteted in case a Dr. finds you physically unable to work. That's all.
When you don't have to use them in a year, then you have already "cashed in" but having the good fortune of good health.
Yes, we all should be entitled to that.
But, anything beyond that is NOT "sick days" (how can it be called "sick" days when you get paid for being HEALTHY!). It's simply become one of many vehicles by public employee unions (and public governments - whose employees themselves benefit from these arrangements) for taking money out of tax payer's pockets for which they were NEVER intended.
It's just a trick to make salaries appear "low" or "just" competitive to the private sector by hiding major cash portions of the SALARY in other artificial constructs. It's about being deceiptful about how much salary one truly makes.
If someone has to work only 35 years instead of 45 years - then their salary must be 25% less, if someone has 14 guranteed "whatever" days then they are only working 250 instead of 264 days, then their salary must be 6% less, etc. if someone's health insurance coverage (after employee contribution) cost $15,000/year vs. $10,000/year - then their salary must be $5,000 less. You can't ask for "comparable" nominal salaries, and then earn another $20,000/year (or whatever the figure might be) in "non-salary salaries".
I AM in favor for them to get a COMPETITVE salary!
BellairBerdan
12:19 pm on Monday, October 31, 2011
Andy your position has several flaws. First of all you are assuming every public employee hired stays until they retire. That is simply not true. Only a very tiny percentage of people make it to retirement. When you leave the job you lose all sick time. So, giving that, is the salary of every person artifically low if they never are able to keep those days? If your position is that a person should be paid 25% if they retire at 35 years of service, should people that do not make it 35 years get a check for 25% more for their time when they leave? Please explain how this 'trick' plays out when the vast majority of people do not stay with the same employer for 35 years.
Andy Schmidt
12:33 pm on Monday, October 31, 2011
My position is: Adjust salaries so that they are competitive. Benefits should be for their stated purpose (e.g., paid sick days, on case you get sick that year). Don't hide salary components elsewhere.
Sounds like now you're agreeing that the system is not fair - even to the vast majority of public employees (as per your account). Consequently, we should all be in agreement at these various benefits need to be unbundled, accounted for what they really are and then made sure that public employees fairly receive a salary that is in line with the work they perform.
As far as the current "back-log" of "accumulated sick" days - there is no way these shoud be paid out. If these employees should end up with a catastrophic illness (which I hope they will be spared of!) until they retire at 67 (or whatever Americans are currently entitled to) and their Dr. declares them unfit to work, then they can use them to protect themselves and their families from financial hard ship. THAT is fair, appropriate and extremely gracious.
Richard Nutter
10:27 am on Monday, October 31, 2011
In todays economy things will change,like use your time or lose it and when you retire
the county will buy back all your sick time say 500 hours but only pay you for 250
hours at todays rates and you wonder why our property taxes are climbing.
O.J
1:47 pm on Monday, October 31, 2011
@ GNOBIE01
Obviously you feel that you are over worked, and stressed, but you do have the right to take vacation days if you feel like you need a rest. Your complaints about due sick time, really has no merit what so ever. Sure they give you sick time, but they crucify you for using it, but you shouldn't be allowed to accrue that many sick days. Your getting paid to do your job, and are expected to stay healthy. If your out sick, while you are getting paid for the sick day, another person is also getting paid to work the day(s), that you are sick, same goes for when you take a vacation day. Granted, there are time when you need to call out sick, but you might want to chalk it up to the people you work with that abuse their sick days/ vacation days.
Joe Loonam
3:23 pm on Monday, October 31, 2011
What do people not get? Use them or lose them like the rest of the world!
PaymeNOWorLATER!
3:25 pm on Monday, October 31, 2011
Every State and County employee should use their time, stick it right to their employers and to the taxpayer and have the taxpayer pay for overtime and use sick time. What the article does not show is that most contracts cut sick time in HALF at time of retirement saving the taxpayer money. So use your time, stick it to the taxpayer and get FULL pay instead of HALF pay!
Hank
5:40 pm on Monday, October 31, 2011
Anna I think you should pay a Police officer enough money so they can afford live in the town they are protecting. Cadillac health care...absolutely. You get what you pay for.
William Mays
7:16 pm on Monday, October 31, 2011
Oh please, cops here get paid 100k, way too much in my opinion considering the crappy job they do.
Kelly Van Rijn
2:17 pm on Saturday, January 14, 2012
Yes, Cadillac health care while those who pay their salaries have no insurance! I guess you have to lay out the big bucks for cops in north Jersey to sit in new police cars while they watch the road crew lay some new asphalt.
Mike Kupchik
6:03 pm on Monday, October 31, 2011
Has anyone clearly defined why Bergen and Passaic need the county-layer of government, while the bulk of Jersey does not?
Mike Kupchik
6:06 pm on Monday, October 31, 2011
I apologize if I have offended anyone in this forum, but I've often wondered how the other counties get by.
Howard L. Pearl
7:56 pm on Monday, October 31, 2011
To Petethedogwalker: Exactly what salary is enough that a police officer or a fireman will do a good job? Civil servants perform well if they are dedicated and the salary is fair compensation. A few $ more does not necessarily guarantee a better employee; any executive can verify that.
Hank
10:37 pm on Monday, October 31, 2011
I don't think 80,90, 100,000 is out of the question including overtime. I've owned tractor trailers for many years. Some guys are pushing 75-80k driving a truck. So 90k for a guy in uniform is about right. No a few more dollars does not make a better employee. I'm not for banking sick days...just take your sick days or lose them ..no problem. But I also listen to the scanner during emergencies etc. When you actually hear the Police and dispatchers solving problem after problem you realize how good we have it. They deserve to make a good buck.
Tony
10:25 am on Thursday, November 3, 2011
Er, THOUNGDUC, I think the financial plumbing would be a little different if it were to be called socialism.
The agreements were made by the employees with the government (who get all their money from the taxpayers - which inevitably fluctuates).
In socialism, you'd have already agreed *up front* that you wouldn't have those kinds of vacation/sick conditions and would all have the same amount.
I don't think anyone is condoning socialism here (God, I hope not). And some would even argue that our form of democracy is just a cleverly disguised version of special interest socialism.
What I think people are trying to express is SOME kind of regulation so that people are free to capitalize on SOME overtime/sick/vacation time accrual - JUST NOT TO THE TUNE OF 470 YEARS WORTH. Where's the line? I don't know. But I know that Bergen County is unique in it's non-consolidative mess that it's built. And it simply can't be argued as not being excessive, redundant, and wasteful.
If it were to be decimated, consider yourself lucky in at least getting an explanation. In the business world, you're not even given that courtesy if you're laid off/fired/terminated.
Anna
3:25 pm on Thursday, November 3, 2011
Public workers have their pension plans. We have our 401K plans. They disappear too--no guarantees of any fixed retirement benefits in the private sector.
To the person who said say private sector workers are privilged because they sit behind desks all day: you know that's not true. Many work in factories, kitchens, butcher shops, supermarkets, as cleaning people, janitors, security guards, mailroom clerks, all sort of physical work. These are not cushy jobs, and some are also dangerous. Everyone should be paid decent wages, and be entitled to reasonable health and retirements benefits. If that's socialism, then so be it.
Howard L. Pearl
4:12 pm on Thursday, November 3, 2011
Anna: Just one minor amendment to your opinion. "Everyone who performs well at the job should be entitled to decent wages and benefits. I have worked with government employees for years. Some are excellent; some would never survive in the private sector for five minutes. One last point, for all intensive purposes, they cannot be fired. That perk is certainly not true in the private sector under most circumstances.
William Mays
4:38 pm on Thursday, November 3, 2011
That isn't true that they can't be fired. Teachers, it's harder to fire them than other public employees but if we are talking about for example a DMV employee, they can be fired easily.
Tracy Mattei
4:35 pm on Thursday, November 3, 2011
It seems like Christie is moving towards a more realistic use of sick time accumulation, it resembles more of what the private sector had to do decades ago. We could have avoided a lot of this by NOT allowing benefit time to be accrued due to overtime hours worked. No hours of benefit time should be accrued above and beyond the employment status (full or part time). That way the benefit allocation is controlled and allotted for, no need to give extra time off for any employee that is working overtime and receiving premium wages.
Tony
4:50 pm on Thursday, November 3, 2011
THOUNGDUC, I gotta say, you raise some good points. Especially the fact that there are some public sectors that aren't wasteful and/or redundant. But when something like this happens, it shows that there's been a gross lack of oversight somewhere. However, it is all connected, and so the State raiding those funds is certainly a travesty. At the core it's really about establishing some kind of checks and balances. If we're going to hold people accountable, it should be done fairly and made widespread. Wishful thinking I know, but what's the alternative? How do you choose who gets to horde/amass and who does not? The only way is to bring things to light and provide some regulation in order to ensure some kind of sanity check.
Tony
4:55 pm on Thursday, November 3, 2011
Anna, I couldn't agree more. Plus, the comment "they sit behind desks all day" really got my dander up as well. Even when it is true! I know people who bust their tails "sitting behind a desk all day" - in fact, I'M ONE OF THEM! I write manuals for a company in NY. Picture writing technical documentation four hours and hours on end. It's like writing term papers over and over - day in and day out. Only make sure you add a generous portion dependencies and product release deadlines.
I happen to like it. However, saying that because I "sit behind a desk all day" I don't work hard? You'd have to be out of your mind.
Anna
7:50 pm on Thursday, November 3, 2011
Don't know about you Tony, but when I work weekends, late nights at the office or extra hours at home, I don't get paid overtime. I've had to travel and be away from home without extra compensation. Every year I have to contribute more and more to my health insurance, and the deductibles go higher each year too. Our salaries have been frozen for several years. And because of the volatility on Wall Street, the value of our 401Ks have shrunk.
The point isn't that we are envious or resentful of public sector employees. No sour grapes or cheap bastards here. I appreciate the job done by civil servants and dont' believe in bashing them. It's just that the extra extra perks and entitlements they get aren't transparent and are easy to abuse, and are sometimes undeserved.
GNOBIE01
5:21 pm on Thursday, November 3, 2011
Seems to me that there is a lot of sour grapes on this post..YOU want the benifits of police and fire and ambulance but don't want to pay for them...cry about the costs...with over 2500 employees...a large amount of accrued sick time means that few are useing the sick time and working like you want us to........ all I can say about that is ...we are entitled to the benifits that we are getting ...too bad if you don't like it...shoulda joined the department and do the job before you criticise...compareing a private sector job to what county employees in emergency services do is like compareing jumping off a chair with skydiving...enjoy your safety and security knowing that your tax money is well spent protecting your family...providing needed services that you use everyday whether or not you want to acknowledge that...CHEAP BASTARDS!!!
PubliusMaximus
5:21 pm on Thursday, November 3, 2011
The State of New Jersey RAIDED, STOLE, BORROWED, NEVER REPAID, Billions of dollars to public employee pensions for the past 10 to 15 years. In the last few years, public employees made concessions, AND local and State politicians passed along laws INCREASING public employee pension payments and health benefit payments. So, as you can see, public employee pay has, and in the future with salary CAPS will continue to be diminished! Why? all because CRIMINAL politicians raided pensions and benefits. Instead of beating up a public employee, put the blame where it belongs.. The blame is upon the politician and the voting public who voted the politcian in!
GNOBIE01
7:06 pm on Thursday, November 3, 2011
RIGHT YOU ARE PUBLIUSMAXIMUS...now I would like to see how all these gentle folk who espouse the private sector jobs as being equal would react to their bosses stealing the company 401 to pay for other expenses....not a word about that????... I would bet that there would be all kinds of crying then...but since it is not them...it is OK?...
GNOBIE01
8:07 pm on Thursday, November 3, 2011
like I said ANNA...WALK A MILE IN MY SHOES AND STILL SAY THAT THE COMPENSATION IS UNDESERVED...working uncompensated is a problem that you should not put up with....if you do....that is not the fault of the public sector
Kelly Van Rijn
2:19 pm on Saturday, January 14, 2012
Well, it isn't the fault of the taxpayer who is getting screwed paying you, that's for sure.
MARIO SICARI
12:58 am on Friday, November 4, 2011
I think you all need to be a bit more respectful toward one another, I work for myself and would never trade it for a job in the public sector, I respect everyone righ to earn a living, but I will say this, I dont blame public employees for their contracts, I blame the elected officials which awarded them...the system at one time, long ago, made sense...it no longer makes sense, the reason is as the number of public workers increased over the years so did the taxes to support the payrolls, as taxes moved higher, people within the state like myself, will look to take our wealth out of the state and re locate to a states where the taxes and the system is more efficient...for instance Florida has more citizens than NJ and they do not have the overlap of services which exist here...municipal, county and state government, is ridiculous...when I served on the BOE , we had district superintendents and a county superintendent, I once asked what was the purpose of the county superintendent, the response was to oversee the district superintendents...waste total waste, with the money we spend in NJ on administration in education we should be graduating Einsteins, it is not the case...waste
Tony
9:19 am on Friday, November 4, 2011
Everyone on this post is coming from very extreme special interest group vantage points.Including you Mario. While you work for yourself, you're biased as a member of the BOE - which is very intertwined with the political/public sector. No one should expect anything else - everyone has some kind of vantage and stake in how the community is run.
There's nothing sour grape about wanting some regulation. When things don't make sense anymore - they simply don't make sense and should be remedied. The claim of "gentle folk who espouse the private sector jobs as being equal would react to their bosses stealing the company 401 to pay for other expenses" is so far fetched I don't know where to begin. Bosses/officers of companies not doing anything corrupt or taking money to pay for other expenses is almost cliche, so I really don't think you mean that it doesn't take place. As far as 401Ks, I'm not all that sure you understand how they work.
But that's beside the point. None of this implies taking away ALL of your unused money/time - it means doing something. Whining about other problems is just a distraction to hang onto your cheese.
No one is a "cheap bastard." No one should be making claims from the standpoint where one group or vantage is better than the other. The situation just needs some examination. It could even mean grandfathering existing money owed. Who knows.
It's slinging stupidity and extremes that get the entire community positively nowhere.
MARIO SICARI
11:23 am on Friday, November 4, 2011
@Tony...I dont understand your comment, am I biased about being an enterprenuer, yes I am...I love it, I love the ability to create my own wealth, I love setting goals for myself and achieving them, I am passionate about my profession, with that said you equated by position on the BOE as biased...well I owuldnt call it bias...I would call it an experience to say the least...my point in my blog was, as you stated this is an emotionally charged debate, we can respectfully disagree iwth one another without becoming disrespectful in our comments, my point of the system is simple...it is outdated and needs reform...there is way too much overlap and at some point disticnt reforms must be made, if they are not made the system can not sustain itself. We are heading down a road which will result in a Greece like scenario, the problem, there are no more gimmicks to suspend the inevitable...the currency is already devalued, interest rates are as low as they can go, and growth rate in our economy is an anemic 2.4%...a robust 3.5% is needed to create job growth...so as long as we continue to mount this out of control debt on our local, state and federal budgets, our taxes will continue to rise, or we kick te can down the road and implode.
Tony
3:48 pm on Friday, November 4, 2011
Mario, I think we're on the same page man. I couldn't agree with you more. All I meant by being biased are those experiences we all bring to the table. Your BOE experience, your livelihood as an entrepreneur, mine as an executive, all jade us to some degree.
This is why, as you said, everyone is so emotionally charged.
That doesn't negate the need to do something. The only commonality I've seen on this thread (ours included) centers around some kind of oversight to bandage any overspending while still keeping/compensating where merit is due.
There simply must be a way for rational solutions - or at least aligning more towards them. Otherwise, why even bother getting up in the morning? Like you said, we're on course to the results taking place in Greece/Europe.
MARIO SICARI
4:13 pm on Friday, November 4, 2011
@Tony, Unfortunately have you ever had a rational conversation with an emotional charged individual??? Most politicians are emotional toward their party and toward their agenda, so rational decisions escape common sense. I have witnessed it for the past three years at the Golf Commission, I witnessed it 1st hand on the BOE, and quite frankly to vote for folks who rant and rave about democrats or republicans is ridiculous...I vote for people with smarts and for people who have integrity, regardless with party affliations...this morning I read a letter to the town news from an emotionally charged republican guy who proudly wears his party affiliation on his sleeve, a good guy, the husband of a council woman, its content began supporting his wife, Admirable, but than he made a statement that the "marines had landed" referring to the election win of Alan Brundage and Mike Rohdeick...in as much as I respect Mr Brundage and Mr Rohdeick dedication to the community, what does their military service have to do with serving on the council? So council members who did not serve admirably in the marines, do not make good candidates? I stopped reading the letter when nonsnese became his format. The local agenda should focus on maintaining a lean budget. Most expenditures at the local level are salaries, insurance and benefits, I did not realize marines recieved this type of training.
Tony
4:40 pm on Friday, November 4, 2011
Truly rare (rational conversations with emotionally-charged individuals). The anecdotes you mention here are nuts! HAHA! Strange indeed. Unfortunately all too common.
Yeah, party affiliation basically just shows how much of a sheep a person's behavior is. And how willing they are to forgo any rationale or logic. It's obsolescence is so apparent on the national level, I always wonder why the partisan, local-yokel, bumpkins don't see how obvious and silly it looks on the local level.
MARIO SICARI
7:55 pm on Friday, November 4, 2011
@Tony...very well said
MARIO SICARI
8:23 pm on Friday, November 4, 2011
@THoungduc.LMAO.you have a very funny way of putting it.I rather not attack people personally, I'd rather respectfully disagree. Every party does this nonsense every voting cycle, I think it divides us more and more as a community.To vote for someone simply because they are democrat or republican at the local level is just plain ridiculous, there are good candidates in both parties.Ironically look at Jon Corzine, personnally, never cared for the man, I predicted after his defeat he would move out of NJ, guess what? he did.Now he is being investigated for the same crimes the democratic party stood on a soap box and complained about. Do you see Chris, Rachel, Ed or Lawrence of MSNBC doing a story on Corzine? Absolutely not, heck if he was a republican the news media would be a circus. You would think local politics would rise above this petty nonsense, they dont... and guess what we as taxpayer and homeowners loose every year by voting incompetence, simply because someone labels themselves a democrat or republican...the only advice I can give...is read the resume of the candidate.There is a local senate race and one candidate is touted as a businessman, yet they don't tell what type of business he owned, if he ever owned a business, as far as I know he was a salesman, yet the mailers and the commercials claim he is a successful buinessman, how could I vote for that nonsense, he seems like a decent guy, but if they cant tell the truth about what or who is , what good is he?
THOUNGDUC
2:23 pm on Saturday, January 14, 2012
Mario i totally agree with your blog, Nothing will ever happen to Corzine. Democrat or Republican most are out right liars, and would and have sold their soles to get elected - heck they would probably sell their wives and children too. Have a great year
.
Rita Murphy
1:22 pm on Monday, November 7, 2011
I agree and would rather have a council with both parties and independents on it, but no we have to have all one party because they insist. Well, I'm hoping that the people have something more to say about that. What is insulting is the cops, firemen and public employees going out for the candidate and we're suppose to believe it's not because of the pressure put upon them. Yeah, right, I believe that.
I want a fresh perspective and that's why some new people on the ticket is the way to go this time. There is no downside to voting for new ideas and approach. I could use some savings on my real estate taxes and if those currently in power couldn't find ways to save before because they became lazy and arrogant, well, it is time for a change.
As a side note on the Corzine/MF Global debacle, I guess one could say he did for MFG what he did for NJ. I thought as a businessman from Goldman he would be able to see the business picture and such, but he was just another empty suit but the democrats still defend him..........holy crow!
Let's vote for a better chance and give the Republicans an opportunity to bring some sanity to Fort Lee.
MARIO SICARI
1:50 pm on Monday, November 7, 2011
@ Rita...I think it is utter nonsense when your Union tells you who you should support. The election process is personal and unions should steer clear of politics. This just based on your statements regarding Jon Corzine who had every union in his back pocket, how do you think NJEA feels about their poster boy Jon now? Great article in the Record this weekend, about our former Governor, who I never really cared for. I know for a fact a zebra cant loose its stripes, so when Corzine entered into politics I knew it was ego driven, he never cared about NJ and is proving by living in Midtown. As far as giving republicans a chance in Fort Lee, as I have always stated in my blogs...read their RESUMES, political affliations at the local, county and state level means absolutley NADA. I am disappointed by the amount of money these local yokels are spedning and election commercial and mailers, when they cant even seem to maintain an emergency fund in the municpal budget to pick up branches after a storm. I will go out on a "limb" and say we will have branches on the curb for weeks to come.
O.J
4:19 pm on Monday, November 7, 2011
Welcome to America, Land of the Unions!!! I love how people say [insert political party], have been in power for too long and they've done nothing, vote for [insert political party 2] so they can TRY and fix things. All that is is a stupid blame game, along with the huge stupidity of politicians voting along party lines, instead of standing up for what is needed to be done with the public in mind. Both parties claim to have be able to "fix" current issues, but the truth is NONE of them do.
There's not a single politician out there, who will risk it all to stand up for what has to be done to fix this decrepit system of a government.
"Ooo I have to support this because this is what my party supports."
"I'm against this because this is what the other party is trying to do."
I guess the greatest fallacy of it all, is that the people are too blind/ignorant to see exactly what is going on. They are all hoping that their candidate will do everything they promised to do, but when their own livelihood is impacted in a negative way, they all bitch, yell, and scream because they don't want to make small sacrifices that is needed to fix the current system. Then, they crucify whom ever they voted for, believing that they are not doing their job.
There's an "I" and a "ME" in America, but there's no "We." How pathetic is that.
GNOBIE01
6:13 pm on Monday, November 7, 2011
THIS STORY IS A WEEK OLD AND PEOPLE STILL COMMENT.......WHY DON'T YOU ALL RUN FOR OFFICE IF YOU THINK YOU ARE SO IMPORTANT???
GNOBIE01
6:15 pm on Monday, November 7, 2011
BY THE WAY...DON'T BOTHER RESPONDING TO THIS MESSAGE...i HAVE BLOCKED ALL EMAILS FROM THIS SITE...WHAT A WASTE
Rus T
8:29 pm on Monday, November 7, 2011
I find it very ironic that Sen. Loretta Weinberg Weinberg is commenting about abuses of sick and vacation payments: For high-ranking local officials, Weinberg said there’s very little oversight to confirm the legitimacy of their accumulated time. “They’re the ones who sign off on their own payroll,’’ she said. “There’s a lot of room for abuse.’’
Isn't she doing the same thing by collecting a government pension and getting a salary? That's called double dipping but I guess she doesn't count herself as part of the problem...
William Mays
7:00 pm on Monday, November 14, 2011
Not really, getting a pension and a salary are two different things. I think double dipping is when an official has two public jobs and collects pensions for both of them.
delgado
7:13 pm on Sunday, November 13, 2011
Tea-Party Freeholders pledge to "look into it" - classic!!!!!
J T
9:33 am on Saturday, December 10, 2011
Kathe Donovan put in for her pension as county clerk the day after she was elected county executive. Another tax feeding double dipper.
publius
11:54 am on Saturday, December 10, 2011
when the politicians practice what they preach, only then will they have a leg to stand on. Most people buy into the political smoke and mirrors tirade of our elected officials without questioning the source of their information or the legitimacy of the politician, all without realizing that the very politician who is vilifying the public employee is engaged in the very same so called practice they are standing on top of their soap boxes crying about. Reform is needed yes, but TRUE reform has to include ALL who are involved with the practice that everyone seems to think is patently unfair.
Howard L. Pearl
4:51 pm on Saturday, January 14, 2012
A few simple questions:
(1) When was the last time that a congressman walked into office with less money than he/she walked out with?
(2) How many ex-representatives become lobbyists after they retire (or lose an election) and make a fortune in their new occupation?
(3) How many presidents have made a fortune on a biography or other book they have published?
(4) How many presidents receive an obscene fee for speaking engagements after tenure as president?
(5) How many governors fail to hope for higher office?
(6) When was the last time you voted for a candidate rather than voting against a candidate that you could not tolerate?
(7) How many of our representatives at any level are representing the best interests of their constituents?
(8) Is it possible to run for major offices without the backing of one of the major parties when the cost to run is so prohibitive?
The system is broken. The final question is “Can it be fixed’?
MARIO SICARI
11:18 am on Sunday, January 15, 2012
@Howard, unfortunately it can not be fixed...OWS is a movement, the problem with the movement it is aimed at Corporation rather than Government. In Europe the people their are protesting their officials for making themselves the elite and destroying their society by mounting incredible amounts of debt. The same is occuring here, the diffrence is the media does not report the news and most times we recieve bias reporst aimed at distracting and distorting the truth and it occurs on both sides... no one side has the patent on this hypocracy it is synonimous with the two party system...take for example the Obama Administration criticism of GW Bush's war on terror, President Obama has entered into more civil war conflicts abroad and has escalated more military action in two year than GW did in 8 rather than uses military Mr Obama has subcontracted his conflicts out though the use of contractors(mercenaries)...but the press gives him a pass, and btw I am for a total withdraw from all military intervention in the world, 1st we cant afford it 2nd we are creating a new breed of hate against America creating a new form of terrorist by interferring in Civil conflicts abroad...Our monetary policy and fiscal policy over the last decade has been horriifc and we continue to kick the can down the road, by politicans buying seats in office through the use of ridiculous labeled tax cuts for middle class America, making them show they care when in fact they dont, it is about power and money
Ridgewood Mom
12:16 pm on Sunday, January 15, 2012
Agreed Howard. Adding to your last question let's ask, "how can it be fixed?"
When large ammounts are being syphoned away from both private and public sectors, does it make more sense for one sector to blame individuals in the other whom they see as having a little bit more than themselves, or does it make more sense to view both sectors as one single thing and focue on the real cultrits of their suffering?
Ridgewood Mom
12:19 pm on Sunday, January 15, 2012
Mario,
I think that one of Howard's strongest points is that at the highest levels government and big business are a single thing. How can you fix one with out looking at the other?
THOUNGDUC
2:07 pm on Sunday, January 15, 2012
I FINALLY AGREE WITH YOUR POINT OF VIEW RIDGEWOOD MOM, WE BOTH AGREE WITH, HOWEVER THE FINAL SOLUTION AFTER ALL THE REVIEWING IS THE BALLOT BOX.
Howard L. Pearl
2:36 pm on Sunday, January 15, 2012
There are some basic solutions, but they are very hard to implement. The public needs to stand up to both parties, Democrat and Republican, and indicate that we are dissatisfied with the candidates that they are offering. This can only be accomplished by people refusing to vote party line, a tough sell to die-hards. We need to put referendums on the ballots to simplify the process for a candidate to run, to allow third party candidates easier access, e.g. in NY State, arcane rules for of a candidate to be placed on a ballot border on the obscene.
Term limits have a way of impeding life-time incumbencies. Age limits may seem discriminatory, however our constitution states a minimum age (presidency, 35). Why shouldn’t there be a maximum? Locally, according to on-line biographical info, Loretta Weinberg is 76 years old, Frank Lautenberg is 86 years old, Joan Voss is 71 years old. We have 24 Senators that are 70 years of age or older, three that are 87 years old (both Hawaii Senators, interestingly enough) and only nine Senators under 50. Experience is a factor to be considered, but new ideas and energy should also be considered. Older representatives, serving multiple terms, have put America on the brink of financial disaster, accruing a national debt that is totally out of control. They have allowed our entrance into global wars that have literally bankrupted our country and lost innumerable American lives.
There are solutions, but we need to fight for them.
B@B
8:23 am on Monday, January 16, 2012
There should already be term limits; they are called elections. Unfortunately, people tend not to do their civic homework when preparing to vote. They vote right down a party line, or vote for their incumbent no matter what his record. This is how Scott Garrett has been on Congress since 2003. Underfunded challenger candidates have trouble getting their message out, but few people even try to find out who the alternatives are.
MaximusConfidence
2:40 pm on Sunday, January 15, 2012
Howard, get a haircut.
MARIO SICARI
4:38 pm on Sunday, January 15, 2012
@Ridgewwod Mom, you truly believe there is no corruption in Govt? We over threw a soverign country, we implemented our military once again through the puppet UN resolution to arm Libyan Rebels...Did Iraq turn into a democartic state? can you name one country in the middle east that resembles a democraticstate? If you think they hated us 10 years ago,.TRILLIONS wasted and you want to end corporate greed??? The government can seem to regulate itself hown can it possibly regulate the private sector, as long as we have corruption, greed and life long politicans manipulate us, ceratin not all certain corporation will behave exactly the same way the government allows them to behave, unethical, becuause they influence the politicans with their money something a politican can not walk away from...we can never "fix it" I just hope it deosnt become to turn into Greece too soon, it is inevitable we will...JOHN F Kennedy types dont exist any longer
Ridgewood Mom
5:44 pm on Sunday, January 15, 2012
No Mario. I do not believe that there is no corruption in government.
I believe that the large scale corruption of government, of which you speak, can be traced to forces that lie outside of the government. Specifically, to big money.
Would you like some breakdown regarding that relationship?
And I believe that smaller scale complaints about things like the cost of running county nursing homes, sick days, bonus time, decent public worker salaries, keeping competent public workers working at their jobs, purchasing requested materials such as fire engines and police cars (which are for the good of townsfolk and not firemen and policemen) and other recent local news grumblings hardly constitute corruption or even a noteworthy expense compared to what is being skimmed off the top. I think that all of this hysteria that is being generated off of people focusing their energies on those sorts of things is self defeating for everyone involved and extraordinarily helpful as a distraction for those that continue to skim even more off of the top then they have done already.
Following the recent financial meltdown, there are individuals who are laughing all the way to the bank. And as things are going with so many little people becoming "outraged" with one another over trifles those same laughing individuals are likely to be laughing even harder tomorrow.
Howard L. Pearl
4:43 pm on Sunday, January 15, 2012
To MaximusLackofConfidence: A few people making an attempt to have an intelligent dialogue and another anonymous blogger chiming in with an inane comment.
To Mario: Corruption has been part of government in America throughout my lifetime. One way to limit it is to stop reelecting the same corrupt officials.
MARIO SICARI
10:23 pm on Sunday, January 15, 2012
Ridgewood Mom, Sometimes you really frustrate me...The FEDERAL RESERVE is the biggest corruption...they caused itGeenspan own admission, the financial meltdown, by not regulating Wall St, By passing the Commodities Modernization Act, why dont you look that one up, you will ask yourself, MY GOD WHAT WERE THEY THINKING? It is not outside forces...it is there own doing...they have train wrecked our currency, by printing money and spending it and both parties blame each other without either one stepping up and stopping it...Im sorry RM we are at 1.6 trillion dollar deficit, 1.6 trillion it is 80% GDP and it is the 103 % the size of our economy...every conference call I am on states the exact same,,,too much debt, FED printing too much money and spending out of control...Govt not corrupt, they pay off unions in both the private and public sector for their grasp on power, they (politicans) dont acer about the American people...It is a show
Ridgewood Mom
12:41 pm on Monday, January 16, 2012
It is the profit motive, and that the invisible hand is really a non existent hand.
MARIO SICARI
10:26 pm on Sunday, January 15, 2012
Ridgewood Mom...The Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 (CFMA) is United States federal legislation that officially ensured the deregulation of financial products known as over-the-counter derivatives. It was signed into law on December 21, 2000 by President Bill Clinton. It clarified the law so that most over-the-counter (OTC) derivatives transactions between “sophisticated parties” would not be regulated as “futures” under the Commodity Exchange Act of 1936 (CEA) or as “securities” under the federal securities laws. Instead, the major dealers of those products (banks and securities firms) would continue to have their dealings in OTC derivatives supervised by their federal regulators under general “safety and soundness” standards. The Commodity Futures Trading Commission's (CFTC) desire to have “Functional regulation” of the market was also rejected. Instead, the CFTC would continue to do “entity-based supervision of OTC derivatives dealers.” [1] These derivatives, especially the credit default swap, would be at the heart of the financial crisis of 2008 and the subsequent Great Recession.
Ridgewood Mom
12:39 pm on Monday, January 16, 2012
Indeed.
MARIO SICARI
10:28 pm on Sunday, January 15, 2012
Ridgewood Mom...yea I guess we should still allow these brain childs to make decisions for us, they are doing a great job...we wont even discuss foreign policy...
Ridgewood Mom
12:44 pm on Monday, January 16, 2012
These "brainchilds" have far more to do with big money (outside of government) then they do with your local police force or fire department or teacher or nursing home employee. Its not about the public sector.
Ridgewood Mom
12:55 pm on Monday, January 16, 2012
Corruption at higher levels of government certainly has nothing at all to do with working class people being paid their savings (unused sick days) as per contracted agreement.
Ridgewood Mom
12:54 pm on Monday, January 16, 2012
The hyperbolic subtitle to this article is "County's total liability nears $54 million to its 2,754 employees." In plain math this means that an average of $19.6K per employee of saved earning (unused sick days) per employee that jealous anti-government types would like to steal from them. $19.6K is not a lot per person across an averaged career span, as the choice of numbers expressed in this article is meant to suggest.
Andy Schmidt
1:16 pm on Monday, January 16, 2012
What's "sick" about the matter at hand is that there is such a thing as saving "sick" days in the first place.
Having paid sick days is an (appropriate and justified) privilege in itself. If you are unfortunate to be too ill to come to work, at least you won't be out of money.
But there is no such thing as "unused" sick days. EITHER you actually WERE sick, then you are fortunate and grateful to continue to receive pay - OR you actually were NOT sick, then you are fortunate to enjoy good heath and received your regular pay as well.
Being paid TWICE for those days that you were healthy is what's SICK! I don't expect my employer to support such a crazy scheme like that and I certain am not willing for "MY" (public) employees to get $19.6K each of MY money!
MARIO SICARI
1:20 pm on Monday, January 16, 2012
Ridegwood Mom...it is not about the 19,000 paid out...it is about the PO who retires and gets in access of 150K. in unused sick time..again I am not against a PO benefits, I am against the stupid, yes I said it "Stupid" politicans who negotiated it...
Ridgewood Mom
2:40 pm on Monday, January 16, 2012
Andy,
The nature of much public sector work is more like that of a salaried professional than it is like that of a time card type employee. But time is counted as a significant part of the basis for compensation for public workers. Far more so than it is for most private sector salaried employees. And it is necessary that this be so because of the nature of how civil servants are employed.
Sick days aren't about being paid to be sick. Having a set number of "sick days" puts a cap on the maximum allowable number of days that a person may be out. It simultaneously discourages people from using these days when they are not sick (which costs the system more) because they get paid something more if they are in more often in then if they are not. This amount is not extra pay. It is simply part of the provision of the initial contract.
Ridgewood Mom
2:43 pm on Monday, January 16, 2012
Mario,
I don't disagree that there is always room for making future contracts better, where the terms of previous contracts are not good. We should expect there to be bad practices to be caught in specific cases, and should be vigilant in catching them.
Andy Schmidt
2:46 pm on Monday, January 16, 2012
Again - I'm a "salaried employee" who can take sick days, but only when I'm sick. Otherwise, I'm exected to show up for work - like everyone should. Having paid sickdays is a precious privilege that should NOT be abused by a responsible employee (public or private) WITHOUT having to allow someone to build up a savings account of "unpaid" sick days.
I'm objecting to this entire concept and I find it distasteful that these kind of deals have bene negotiated that give salaries an artificial "low" look, so that public employee unions can argue how "underpaid" the public sector is by comparing annual salary figures to the private sector WITHOUT figuring in these perverse arrangements.
Ridgewood Mom
3:39 pm on Monday, January 16, 2012
Andy,
You don't seem to understand the "sick day" system. It really isn't a benefit. If you took sick days away and added the "payout" sums to the yearly salary to get a single fixed salary, operating costs would go up.
If you feel that doing this would paint a more honest picture of the total compensation of a public employee, then an even handed comparison of total compensation (including all benefits) would paint a picture unlikely to further your chopping block goals. In most solid salaried private sector jobs, overall benefits (in terms of quality of insurance pension and 401K, etc.) far exceed what is involved for public sector positions. What about bonuses, for example?
Of course, it is all relative. If we are comparing public sector benefits to those of WalMart employees or those of day laborers in Shenzhen we will come to a very different sort of conclusion.
THOUNGDUC
1:37 pm on Monday, January 16, 2012
Lets not state all state employees in this thread, many state organizations and public safety departments fire/police don't have a buy out, its use them or lose them, so to bundle all is mis-leading in the least and labeling those is wrong.
MARIO SICARI
1:55 pm on Monday, January 16, 2012
@Thoungduc...W Paterson was just reported a payout of 1.3 million to 7 retiring Officers... in Paramus it is a Pay Out, but lets understand something Thoungduc, I am not demoralizing PO for getting or taking the perk...I am calling Politcians who negotiated the perk stupid...I would never had negotiated or voted for that perk without a cap.
MARIO SICARI
3:16 pm on Monday, January 16, 2012
Ridgewood Mom...You seem to be more tolerant than I in the system...recently BOE members needed to get fingerprinted and a back ground check...many have complained about this practice...I for one support and encourage not only a back ground check bit a credit report check as well, now many may ask me why a credit report, because if an individual is not responsible with their own bills how can they vote for or adopt policy for the office they serve??? isnt that a part of being ethical? why is it we continue to support candidates who do not have the resumes to do the task they seek to be elected for??? I know some of our council members they are and have been clueless, when it comes to basic financial matters, taht doesnt make them "bad" people" just terrible council members, yet they negotiate contracts, they make policy and than you ask yourself why we find ourselves in the mess we are in...your re kidding??? Keep electing un qualifed individuals base on them knocking on your door and asking for your support, when they do knock, do you begin to ask them why they are running...they all respond with the same line...I live in town for x years, I support our town and I want to make sure we keep taxes down and we maintain our blues laws...sounds great...we vote them in, than they adopt the worse policies only to cause taxes to sky rocket because someone from their organization is pulling their strings...it is a terrible game, and I have witnessed it 1st hand