ROTFLMAO!!! I think I pee'd myself.

You misread it Stuart - renters will get a slightly different survey.

Just to clarify, renters i.e. tenants will also be mailed surveys. The surveys will just be slightly different than the property owners.

@Zak - Please post the draft questionnaires they plan to send to each group.

@Doug - The manager provided me the surveys on the condition that I would not post them in their entirety on Patch (as to avoid potential survey fraud). I'm happy to provide a general overview of the questions that are asked though.

Zak,

Survey fraud? If they're afraid someone else might drop 7K on a survey, please post it! Ha ha...

I agree Yuri! The Community Center is a nightmare! The decision to build the center should have been in the hands of voters. The town took out a $13 million bond from the Bergen County Improvement Authority, which will cost $30 MILLION over 30 years, not including the tens of thousands of dollars it costs to keep the building heated, cooled, lit and staffed!

@Ezra Sorry about the delayed response, I hadn't seen your questions earlier. While I don't know the specifics of the electronic survey plan that was considered, I can say that Survey Monkey did come up at a meeting, so I'd guess it was something that was evaluated. Council didn't want to do electronic exclusively, so it would have been on top of any mailed survey -- meaning $3/completed online survey + $7,000.To prevent photocopying, the surveys will have a raised seal. Each survey will be identified by block and lot number, so that residents remain anonymous while also being trackable (data can broken down by distinct geographic clusters within the town). The analysis of the surveys will be done in house. Not sure how they'll evaluate it, statistically speaking, but the results will be posted. I don't know what response rate the margin of error is based on

The used the lack of a rate increase last year to allow the double increase this year. The won't raise taxes next year since two (R) seats up and the county employees won't be running. Rest assured, the following year we will see 4% again regardless of the results.

Elmwood Park, Glen Rock, Paramus, Paterson, Midland Park, Ridgewood all come to mind. Do you seriously think the politicos in all of these towns would turn away $200,000 to increase usage of their library with virtually no additional cost? Sure the number I picked was arbitrary, but it was based on the Borough Manager's favorite number for any project of small but unknown costs. It would be rather easy to have them bid on our business. Even if it cost $500,000, we still save $1,500,000+

Ok, so Tommy you just made that dollar figure up, and you have no idea whether any local township would be willing to subcontract out the library. You don't think they have Tommy P's in all those places too, complaining that Fair Lawn residents got the use of the library for much less than their taxpayers have to pay?

Once again, you prove that you're with Trawinski (and Metzler) in pulling numbers and suggestions out of thin air.

I take care in ensuring I use accurate numbers and have corrected myself on rare occasion and provided documented sourced many times. Obviously the $200k number was a straw man number. To date, our leaders haven't asked any towns at all.

Communism is a bit ironic to use as the example. The government running a business is exactly what communism is all about. Your desire to have the government take under threat of force money from everyone to have a town library for the sake of having a town library saddens me. There is no reason every town in NJ needs its own public library. When we close ours, it won't be the first, Northvale did it last year. Our borough manager talks about shared services with other towns, I understand we are the 4th largest town, but what do we outsource to other towns? Why not the library? Paramus Library is less then 5 miles from ANYWHERE in Fair Lawn......

@K - Here's an article I wrote back in May about circulation at the library being down. It notes some of the statistics you're looking for. The BCCLS website is also great for stats on any of the libraries in the system. http://fairlawn.patch.com/articles/library-loses-circulation-in-time-of-technologica-change

Let's assume it costs $500k to use Paramus' library, that leaves $1,600,000+ to run a shuttle bus between the two locations or even a few extra stops in Fair Lawn. Our minibus could actually get some usage. Think it would cost $600k to run that bus?

The real challenge will be to get the council to return the million dollars a year to us.

I support the pool too, I am forced to subsidize the tiny minority that use it for a few weeks a year. If the pool means that much to those that use it, why shouldn't they pay for it? Kind of like how we pay for the two other shared pools in this town.

The borough has several under utilized buildings, why does it have to be there? My brother uses the facility and is a part of the majority of nonresidents.

Why should we have to identify ourselves and ask the clerk? Shouldn't this simply be published. It's not like they don't have the agendas. One of our clerks make $145k+, one would think such a highly paid employee could figure that out.

We are being abused by civil service workers, we are being told we need to convert one of them into a full time employee. I would be for sending a message and getting rid of them all and paying slightly more to send a loud and clear message to the other civil "service" workers.

I should have been more clear. I never said that Fair Lawn paid for two additional pool, we in Radburn share the expense of private shared pools.

The senior center is a waste of money, nothing which goes on there couldn't be run in another building the borough is under utilizing.

As for identifying myself to the clerk, its kind of backwards don't you think? Shouldnt every law and every vote be published? Why should the clerk's office compile a list of people questioning government? Should it be transparent? What are they trying to hide?

Its a shame that your offended, but your self described victim status earns you no special rights, nor justifies your opinion. The abuses of government unions are well documented. No one should be entitled to a job, it should be earned everyday. No one should be entitled to automatic increases, they should be earned. That's how it works in the private sector which after all funds the "public" sector.

The community center, borough hall, warren school are three that come to mind.

While I understand you are our "official historian", why is the senior center competing with local businesses? What business is it of government to sell food? And according to my brother the food is neither good nor cheap.

Sue obviously some people like each of the services you mentioned. Privatizing the pool for example wouldn't mean we lose it. Just that the tax payers aren't footing the bill. Its not like a not-for-profit or even a for-profit company could move it. We also need to consider usage rates, the vast majority of us about 9 in 10 don't use it, yet we all pay. The majority of us are not welcome (because of age) at the Senior Center and many members are non-residents who pay nothing.

The cost of these services has a real impact. A buddy of mine reminded me the other day how people typically buy houses. Buyers save up some money, then go a mortgage company to see what they qualify for. The bank/broker uses formulas to determine how much you can borrow based on monthly ratios.

The cost per $1000 borrowed on a 30 year loan at 3.5% is $4.49. Since people buy based on monthly budgets, each time taxes go up by that amount a month, it represents a reduction of home values of $1000. According to Zillow, average home price is $323,400, a $72 reduction in taxes would increase the values of our homes by 5%.

As the word gets out that we are fiscally responsible with a solid school system, that 5% will further increase the values of our homes. After all if the pool was that loved, don't you think it would be mention in every MLS listings, I looked, didn't find one. Same goes for the Senior and Community Centers.

Tommy,

Your cost analysis and housing value projection is speculative at best. Demand, not taxes, is the driving factor is housing prices. That is why the average Cape Cod house in Fair Lawn was averaging 500K+ during the housing boom. Now we have a glut of houses on the market with less demand. Word already is out that Fair Lawn is a great place to live. We have an above average school system with an outstanding Special Education that is really unmatched in the area. The facilities you target are really nothing but a drop in the bucket in the big picture.

Want to see the effects of the pool and library? Lets experiment, and get the Council behind this: Let the Community News run a story about the potential closure of both facilities with a scheduled meeting, and watch 8-01 Fair Lawn collapse upon itself due to the weight of all the people who show up to initiate a public hanging of all 5 Council members. 9/18/2012 sounds like a good date. School is back in and everyone is back from vacation. It will also prove that the PD is understaffed when everyone converges on the building and the PD is overwhelmed.

There's the match. Go ahead, somebody light the fuse. I dare you.

Let's just put it on the ballot and let the voters be heard. Then again we live in a Republic and not a democracy....

Radburn is a private organization, we can end it tomorrow. There is a world of difference between Radburn Association and the Borough of Fair Lawn.

Radburn property values may go up if what they offer is the fair lawn school system with the addition of the pools, summer camp etc when FL gets rid of memorial and their summer camp which enjoys the pool...so this remedy may work for some in town?

I am not "Adolpho", I joined this site using a portion of my name, which was given to me commentating an 18th century relative. I updated my profile which had the effect of changing all the comments I made from Thomas Paine to Tommy P.

I am not my brother's keeper. The practice of inviting non residents should be ended. Then again, we should auction off the Sr Center, pay down the debt on the Community Center and enjoy the extra ratables.

The criticism is ironic since you are logging in with a scree name made up solely to challenge me.

Chris, Radburn is a PRIVATE organization. If we the members choose to do so, we can end it tomorrow. Can't say the same about Fair Lawn.

No you can't. The Trustees can, not the members. Members can't even choose who they vote for. So let me see if I have this right: You pay association dues on top of property taxes with a smile, although you can choose to live somewhere else. But you balk at property taxes.

And no, you can't end Fair Lawn. It's a municipal government. That's kinda how things are done in this country. You own property, you pay taxes. In return, you get services. If you don't like the services, you move. Not very complicated.

Chris, I am not going to pretend I like every aspect of our PRIVATE organization. Frankly what we do really isn't much of your business. Our bylaws are very clear, a majority petition ends the organization. It's not likely to happen, but it could.

What you advocate is democracy, I prefer the Republic our founding fathers gave us. Let me see if I can explain it two. Two wolves and a sheep for a democracy, the majority votes sheep for lunch, you now have two members of that democracy. A republics limits the power of government. Two wolves can't vote sheep for lunch.

Government has a role, providing police, maintaining streets, ensure education is available to all children come to mind. Providing entertainment or running business are not the proper role of government. You are free to disagree, but if we keep following people who think like you, bankruptcy is in our future.

ummmmm you are both quite mistaken. Members have to be former trustees. Residents, unless they have been trustees do not have a vote so Tommy P unless you are a former trustee, you have no vote except to elect your trustees who are nominated by trustees and members.

Radburngal,

My mistake. I was referring to the CA members or residents.

I am one of the residents of Radburn, we are diverse group with different opinions. I am not a trustee, nor an elected official, just a person with an opinion.

I am glad that you happily pay for Senior Center, please be the first to open your checkbook and send a donation so the rest of us aren't force to pay for it. We have an okay library, but do we really need our own? Bergen County has hundreds of library, why? Do all 66 high schools, 68 towns, and every grammar and middle school need a library? Our could we consolidate them? The Maurice Pine library alone costs over $2,100,000 a year to run.

Every dollar government spends is money taken out of OUR pockets, OUR budget. This is something lost on our leaders and an area of confusion for many. People get up in arms about taxes, but forget where the money goes, "services". There is a proper role for government, I am just not sure social club organizer is one of them.

@TP/CA All you need is 336 owners to sign a petition called an Affirmative Action to Terminate. Maybe you can't get it done in a day, but that is all it takes. See Article 7 Section 1 in combination with case law, we could end the association fairly easily.

and all you need to do to stop funding memorial pool and the library is get people who share your views to run for town council, get the majority of the residents to vote for these candidates and then have them close or sell off the pool and library.

you could end the funding of memorial and the library fairly easily.

Or........ You could just get some Lexipro. You may be depressed. Such gloom and doom.

Chris aka @TP, there are limits to what the government is supposed to be able to do. In reading the NJ and US Constitutions, using tax money to fund entertainment seems to be missing. May be you can help me find it.

Aside from voting in responsible council members, I can think of at least one other way to end welfare pool, but I will keep it to myself for the time being.

As for the LexApro, I would never use a mind altering drug like that. I'm not sure what doom and gloom you are referring to.

Tommy,

First, I post as me, and only me. I don't have time for garbage. I like taking credit for what I post. As far as what went on last night, it is considered something of a community outreach. That is allowed. Not everything is set in stone.

Oh please, do tell. How do we end the pool?

Lexipro is an antidepressant. And yes, your outlook on life and society is all doom and gloom. Do you ever take time to go back and read what you post?

Several lawyers have looked at this, case law exists. What is missing is the will and organization to end the association. The consequences of ending the association are not fully clear. The biggest question being what happens to the common areas.

Are you sure Tommy? This community predates most existing case law. Don't apply case law to homeowner associations formed after say 1950 or 1960. It's grandfathered in under most old statutes. That's why it continues to exist in its current form. The courts shot down democratic elections. I doubt they'll allow anything else. Did you follow any of the Daly Field stuff?

And if it were to cease to exist as an association, all common areas would probably revert to boro property since they would be no longer owned by anyone. Radburn may continue to exist as a shell entity, but without income (dues), there would be no way of paying for the upkeep and taxes.

Chris, I followed the cases very closely. The common areas would be subject to litigation and the outcome is not very predictable since no case law exists AFAIK on how to deal with it since it will surely be contested.

You need to be a little more specific. Subject to litigation by who? Not the residents of the former Radburn. They no longer, nor do I believe ever, had a legal claim to any open areas. They voted to dissolve. Not the RA. They no longer exist as an entity although, Radburn may choose to sell the open areas (they've done it before) to pay off debt.

In this nation we have rights, owning property is one of them. The governments are limited by the "supreme law" of the country and of the state. At least that is what the Constitutions claim.

Things change, what was once considered unthinkable sometimes becomes accepted. I'll highlight some big examples, slavery and marriage. I have been discussing with anyone who will listen the lack of merit of funding entertainment with tax dollars. Some people are okay with using violence to fund entertainment, in our society they are entitled to hold that opinion. The tide is shifting, economic realities are convincing more people that people who have my view on government entertainment are increasing in number. Want to call me an idiot, sure have it. Of course I didn't expect when I moved here that things would change overnight, and our issues are not unique either. Fair Lawn is great place to live despite some of the relatively minor complaints I have, but that doesn't mean it can't be made better. Ending government entertainment and returning the money to the tax payers of Fair Lawn would make this a better place.

Here's how it's going to go down. $1,000 to you Tommy if it doesn't:

In November 2013, 4 people are going to run in an election for 2 open seats on the Council. 2 will win, 2 will lose. The Sun will also rise in the East on that very day. There is a 50% chance of cloud cover, so even though you may not directly see the Sun, it will be there. On this day a baby will be born and an adult will die. Somewhere, someone in NJ will pay a sales tax. In late June of 2014, Memorial Pool will open as usual for the summer.

Tommy,

How long have you lived here? Who, besides you, share your view on the entertainment? I haven't seen or heard a peep from anyone. Why don't you start a petition to get the question on the ballot. You say more people share your views, right? You should have enough people to circulate a petition. You have that right. Get a referendum on the ballot to close the pool and library. Next year will be a big turnout. We have 2 Council seats and a gubernatorial race.

If you have the balls, do it. If not, stop complaining.

Wow Chris, thank you for such an ineloquent non-sequitur.

In the last election we had 5 candidates that ran for 2 seat. Its cloudy in Fair Lawn less than 50% of the time, and your right less often. I find it ironic that we are both Republicans yet I agree with Democrats more often then I do with you.

Don't count on the pool opening year after next, but you maybe right. I would love to see open too, just not subsidized by the tax payers. We wouldn't have the first government pool like that, I would be proud to be the next. Wouldn't you? Or are you one of those "neo-con" progressive repukagains?

I doubt your a mensch, and I am sure you won't pay up, but I wonder, should I print your comment and try to collect??

Those sellers who have not disclosed the rules have violated the law. Besides, check out radburn.org, our rules are not exactly a well kept secret. Radburn is a dysfunctional organization in some ways, the threat of ending it, may actually get some reform. The reality is the momentum of the status quo is likely to keep it this way until the state changes the law.

Tommy,

The state has ruled on many counts that Radburn is grandfathered into old laws that are no longer on the books. You may want to read up on it.

Read the opinions, your right about structure, but not about absolution.

I am sure if given the choice people struggling would prefer to keep their cash vs giving it to the government in hopes of getting some "perks". The average family is spending $850 on the pool, community center, senior center, library, fire works and other entertainment each year. That doesn't include the $175 to join the pool we already pay for.

Most people don't pay attention, don't think they can change it and don't think the marginal saving is worth their time. The politicians know this, that is why they don't put these spending measures on the ballot. Its why we get misleadingly low numbers on the cost of the pool. It why they hide building maintenance of the library as capital improvements on the borough instead of the library's budget. I could go on.

The corpses are starting to stink, the truth is getting out. Even if 2,000 people stormed borough hall as you suggest Chris, its still means the vast majority didn't, you know the other 29,000+.

If your so sure they are so loved, why not support putting the question to the voters? What are you afraid of?