Close the library, the internet has replaced it! Close the pool its a loss to taxpayers! Save taxpayers now and close both facilities save money now!

Dude, the internet has not replaced the library as a place for kids to come to do homework, nor as a place for younger kids to look at the books, attend programs, and browse. It's true that you can get a lot of audio, video and text online, but for the stuff the library provides, you'd have to be a pirate and break the law to get most of it.

If Fair Lawn didn't have its own library, we could hardly participate in the database services that provide really good resources (not just wikipedia) for our students, or the reciprocal borrowing arrangements that let us try out books and media from not just our local library but libraries all over the county and even all over the state.

Libraries are always a flash point: no matter how little they cost, tax protestors and libertarians complain about them because they are a common good. Whereas if they bothered to set foot through the doors, they'd lots more much money with the resources the library provides. And those of us who love and us the library services will turn out to support them, just as people who support other services do for theirs.

A library is an essential service. While there are a number of books available to "buy" on the internet - not everyone has a reader. A library is a great equalizer in this regard - anyone can pick up a book. Sometimes in a library you are looking for one book - but the one next to it on a shelf turns out to be a great read. You would not find that online. A physical book can be picked up, flipped to a random page, partially read, etc. before taking it home. With regards to online lending of books - have you seen the waiting lists for the limited number of items available? There are 1049 available e-books and 2226 audiobooks for the BCCLS region - most with long waiting lists. With regards to personnel, a librarian is also essential - especially for kids who need help finding what they need. My daughter was interested in birds - and the librarian helped her find age appropriate books for her.

This is a pretty funny article. Compare it to the School Board approving the endless money pit for their budget or the money getting thrown away on Memorial pool. The Rec Center is still operating normal hours with the same staff.
All I can say is, "WOW."

A centralized shared library is not the answer. In these economic times a community library is even more important. If you ar not lucky enough to live in the town with the centralized library you may not have the means to get to the library. The library is about more than books. The programs they run are a benefit to the entire community. Kids having a place to go and learn something is better than those same kids hanging out with nothing to do at the 7-11. Programs that keep kids engaged benefits all of society. The adult programs are also a benefit. Volunteers at the library assist immigrants with learning English so they can better acclimate to their new country and community. The art gallery allows people to immerse themselves in art who might not have a way to go to a museum. For all the people who say the pool should be closed and the library should be closed and anything that makes the community desireable for families to live in should take a look at our neighbor Patterson. Patterson was once a vibrant city. Close the ammenities and what Patterson is today is the future of Fair Lawn. Penny wise and Pound foolish will have short tern benefit with long term disaster.

Adolph, I know what libertarians believe about government provision of shared services. What I find funny is that you failed to address my comment: a shared, county library wouldn't provide space for kids to go after school, because they couldn't get there without being driven. Not to mention Fair Lawn is one of the few libraries in Bergen County that allows pre-teens and early teens to visit the library without a parental escort. Whose rules do you think would obtain in a shared library?

It was just a year ago that Councilman Trawinski stated residents should be aware that we were overfunding the Library by $700,000.

Mr Trawinski, we are aware. Why are we only cutting the budget by 100k?

They are reducing evening hours, are those three hours a day least utilized or the 3 the highly paid staff prefer?

It's time we close the library. Or at the very least merge with another town.

I've been trying to find out exactly what Councilman Trawinski was actually talking about, because certainly the numbers I've seen don't support that. Can anyone give that information?

It hasn't been that long since the library was closed both Sunday and Thursday night to save money. General outcry from users made clear that not being open those days was a inconvenience. (I work all day, myself, and don't get home until after 6 pm.)

Sell off the George Street Park and take money and build a Skate Park or another Tire Playground.

Those who are in favor of the library obviously do not have kids. Our future generations should not have to solely rely on the internet. This is a place for children to learn, read, and socialize even outside of their schools , which have already suffered due to cuts. Maybe some people are content sitting in their homes, spending endless hours being sedentary in front if the computer, but to a vast array if others, getting out of the house, consuming themselves in a book is worth it. And lets mot forget something, having internet access, an ipad, smart phone or a computer are privileges when you have the money for them. The library gives those not as fortunate for those luxuries access to books and computers. So again, those saying to shut the library down do not have children and must be the fortunate ones to afford all the technology that a library can afford for free. Trust me, their are other things to cut back on in this town. It would be a shame if that library ever closed.

Bottom line: There are things that define a town. The Library and Memorial Pool are two staples in this town that help define it. Again, instead of close this, close that....., People should step up with suggestions to make it more attractive to generate the revenue (membership). If not, you're going to get fees rammed down your throat until the books are balanced every year, unless someone does the brave thing and cut. Christie put the cap in for a reason. But towns will always find a way to generate revenue. Question is: You wanna take it standing up, or you wanna take it bending over?

-chris
this is a public forum so you are free to write whatever you want.
however many fair lawn residents use patch to read about local news and this includes kids and senior citizens. please be a bit more respectful , im sure you can find other ways to express your points with out refrencing masturbation or terms like "take it bending over"
my 14 year old daughter occasionally reads the website to see whats happening in town, as well as my 82 year old grandma. i think we can all do without your wierd analogies. you post would probably sound smarter if you word them differently.

Governor Christie knew exactly what he was during when he passed the 2% cap. It was worded, and probably with input of local governments, to limit any property tax increase to 2%, with certain exceptions, but no limits where put on budgets. The towns are making up for loss tax money by increasing charges on services without calling it a tax. Over the next few months we'll be "taxed" on water meters, burglar alarms, parking, recycling fees, library use, the cost of pet licenses, building permits will go up etc, the possibilities are endless. Some of these "non taxes" are in the works or have already taken place. Cut the waste without cutting services. Everybody's expenses go up but management does not hand out the additional money, so we cut back on spending and do without. But all the government has to do is increase taxes.The federal government even wants to lower social security because they raided it so much for everything else.
We've been Bamboozled

Jenne: I won't even get started on this topic. When I heard what part timers were getting paid and the benefits they were receiving it made me ill. But in answer to your question from before, the library has to be funded by a certain amount by law. I believe the overfunding that was previously spoken about was the amount over what the law requires. Could the library do more with less? I think so, everyone else is.

We should cut out the fireworks. I am sure the police OT isn't cheap. I would cut out the street fair security if the police are involved. Let the company that runs it pay for the security. The 5 K run on new years? Lets not pay for security for that either.

Not mad at the police at all. But their budget will have to be reduced like all the other depts. Thats a good place to start.

Stu: I stopped by the PBA tent this year and asked why I haven't seen any police at the street fairs recently. I was told that the chief cut that over 5 years ago. Doesn't seem like a safe decision to me since there has to be thousands who come to our street fair. Penny wise......pound foolish. In this day of many homeland security issues, it is only a matter of time before something happens.

Zak, any numbers given out?. How many people frequent the library each week/month? Thats the tell tale here. If it is used , then limiting hours could be a mistake. I personally do not think the numbers are high and the council made a tough but correct decision.

All those whinning about the expense of a library are only doing so for their political yucks. Libraries are where learning starts, under the guidence of librarians that help children to find resources and learn to research what interests themselves. A library is one of the most cost-effective tools to an educated public, although to most politicians, it's a simple target - besides, an ignorant voting pool is a great tool for despots and fascists and their ilk. I can take a book anywhere I go, requiring no electricity, no device or router, and can read it free of advertising or tracking. No wonder the 1% are only too happy to try to make them harder and harder to use for everyone, especially the working class. I get home after 6 weeknights, like most of us fortunate to have a job - when can I use the library if it's closed weeknights and half the weekend? Personally, I think this falls into the "no one will miss it when it's gone" school of political logic - cut things back to the point no one can use them. Shame on the Council and the cheerleaders for this. How about cutting the Rec center no one uses? Or cutting back on spending for SID's that produce nothing for the town or athletics....or overpaid $100K police officers that sue the town or are incompetent enough to get the town sued?

10/4

So many stats, but they all seem questionable.

First all of the elected officials and candidates who ran for council last time (except maybe Stuart Pace) were in full support of the library.

Closing the library is not on the ballot because the politicians know it doesn't stand a chance of surviving, since the vast majority don't use it.

Your 1% is like the 7% who call themselves the 99%. Grossly exaggerated.

If you went to B&N, or ordered on Amazon, do you realize you'd likely spend less then the tax savings which would be gained by simply closing the library and auction off its books? Let's not forget, you then OWN those books.

As for the Ganz Mahal aka Wreck Center, what a textbook example of council mismanagement, present membership included. I sincerely hope they address the hemeraging, that building wastes over $300,000 in salaries alone.

The recreation department should be self funding too.

Charge a buck a book per rental. Why not? You charge for pool usage. Whats the diff?

im going to bring in a different point of view. mr paine and adolpho bring up an interesting stat that only 10% of the community uses the pool, the rec, the senior center, and the library (although i believe there number is a bit skewed and off). when i hear this i dont believe the problem is our government funding these programs, i believe the problem is the fair lawn residents severely under using these great facilities.
im sure plenty of people from fair lawn spend $20-80 on a gym membership. if the rec center made minor improvements to their equipment and layout, these people could save money by using the rec center and not paying monthly for a gym. i go to the rec a couple times a week and plenty of people use it. the center was poorly designed and there is wasted space. as a town we should be creative and think of ways such as clubs to utilize the space.
an example off the top of my head; an art teacher can rent out a room and hold lessons. programs like this would bring in some money and also utilize some of the wasted space.

it is shocking to hear how few people use the pool. what do you people do with your kids in the summer- keep them inside all day? adolph, whats the matter you scared to pop that shirt off and show alittle belly? nothing a few early morning laps in memorial cant fix!
our senior center is great- and it is extremely important for elderly to stay active and involved. ALL of our seniors should encouraged. i once heard our morning excersize program is so good seniors from other towns come to use it. these out of town seniors should be charged a slight fee for using our facilities
are library is

our public library is great and it would be a shame to lose it. computer screens will never fully replace books. if i am doing a thesis project i can go to a large table at the library grab up to 10 books on the subject and crosss reference and utilize multiple books at a time. unless i can afford 10 kindles and to BUY 10 books online i can not do this without a library,
subjects such as art can not be captured on a 7" x 5" inch screen, however a beautiful color picture in a 18" x 18" BOOK can give a great perspective of the artist work.
they also view movies there such as hugo recently. when it cost a family of 4 $50 to go to the movies these days. i also rent all my dvd's from the library which saves me a lot of money,
the library can be used for meetings and clubs as well. mr paine can start a tea party group and they can meet at the library, watch fox news, and make fun of dumocrats.

the facilities arent the problem, the town not advertising them or utilize them is. as well as the residents who dont use them

Why don't we do away with government entirely? Think of how much money that would save?

Really, those that do not understand the importance of libraries and public recreation facilities have either never been poor or have no concept of doing anything for the public good because no one matters but themselves. What a narrow focus to pitch a fit because something serves the public but not you? Can I complain about the cost of your recycling, garbage, sidewalk and street, the trees that someone else paid for, the drinking water service and sewers? Some years, I don't use the pools, or my children do, or, gasp, other years I do. I don't begrudge my taxes that pay for all the shared services, the schools I didn't use when I was childless, or firetrucks that I may never need. I would rather live in a community with a pool and a library and a fire department. Those things make an investment in my home more desirable when I go to sell it, and improve the quality of my life even if I never use them.

If you are so minded to believe that the internet has replaced libraries, you've never researched something that isn't on the internet, and don't understand how width is not the same as depth of information. If you've never sat on the sand at the pool, spent every summer inside your home surfing the narrow corridors of the web, you are clueless to the real value of those things that are more than a cost in taxes. I pity you. Really. You have no idea of what is missing in your life.

paine and adolpho- when you moved to fair lawn the taxpayers were funding the pools and library. if you cant accept the fact our town leaders (who our residents vote in) like to support these services than move somewhere else.
and stop blaming it on "dumocrats" your beloved republicans have the majority so if the pool and library remain open it is your republicans who are responsible.
paine- i agree it is absurd they dont charge out of town senior pay to use our facilities, its simple changes like that which could make these facilities servicable

paine- when you were looking to buy a house in fair lawn did you scream at the realtor "this is outrages these crooks are stealing out of our pockets funding a library and two pools!"... i'm just curious why someone, by chose would purchase a house in a town that funds pools and a library. if this is so outrages to you, you should have thought about that before you purchased a house here

wow sounds like adolph's getting put in his place....seeing how much he complains on patch im curious what he actually does for fair lawn. can you list anything you volunteer for in town adolph?

Truth be told the library and pool is so under utilized past councils have opened it to out of town residents to the extent Walsh pool was closed. The politticians use these expensive toys to get votes at taxpayer expense. Adolpho hits the nail on the head every time. The rec center is another fine example of politics and votes. Ganz built the place with no voter input, look wat it did for him, and the building is severely under utilized. In the end, Fair Lawn will close Memorial pool along with the library and the rec center will be privately owned. Mark this post!

adolpho 37 minutes ago:
"i have and continue to volunteer for Fair Lawn. ( look for me the next time you USE an emergency service or drive by a ballfield )I come from a long line of the same"

so does that mean you volunteer for the ems? if so dont you think they could have spent less on the renovation to the building by the 208 ramp? or is that ok because it effects you personally?
and you also mention ballfields, do you maintain the ball fields or something because that is a paid position not volunteer work.
fair lawn has plenty of ball fields and only one library. maybe we should sell some of the property our ball parks are on. then we ll make money and not have to pay people to maintain them. or would this effect you personally?

Ever notice that when Adolph Little Moustache gets pushed into a corner his multiple personas come out about 5 mins. after one of his posts to support himself and pat himself on the back to tell everyone how right he is?

Wow! Don't you people rest on the weekends? Lol..... This is a very revealing set of comments. How easily people give up their true identity with letting it be known. Awesome!!

You can bicker all you want. Metzler started the ball rolling on this with these cuts.

Keep the library - instead of reducing evening hours, reduce weekday morning hours (ex: Mon - Fri 11-7). Keep Memorial Pool. Close the Rec Center.

Lets say we close the Rec Center. 1. You still need to pay the debt on it every year. 2. You still need to control the environment (heat and cool) to inhibit mold growth, and other things. 3. The Rec staff will need to move back into the municipal bldg. They still need to run the dept. So, no savings on staff. 4. You will need to find a company that will be willing to lease the place. Given all of the "Close it" proponents, the place is useless. Who would want it? Renovations would take millions, but what would a company use the building for? It's in a residential neighborhood with limited parking. No company is going to take the place. It's too cost prohibitive.

So, any of you "close it" people have any ideas? Because, we can close it, but the chances of saving money are slim to none.

I pay in rent about what many people in town pay in property taxes. No property taxes for me! Suckers ...

That may be true, but it's a lot easier for me to leave than if I owned property in a municipality that continues to spend irresponsibly.

If the turd fits.....

Thom. Paine, I ask again: how do you know that only 10% of the community uses the library, specifically? Have you 'ethically hacked' into the library computers to find out how many library cards are active compared to the population of Fair Lawn? Or are you pulling the number out of thin air?

I'd like hard numbers about how many people have memberships and what the usage is for the Rec center and the athletics programs, too.

i dont believe the numbers at all. for example i go to the community center and it is constantly being used.
even if a small percentage use each individual facility you have to look it as a whole. for example say 10-15% of the town uses the library, 10-15% uses the pool, 10% uses the senior center, and 25-30% uses the rec center- then it is very likely 50-70% of the residents use atleast one of these facilities.
our tax money is spread out between many things- and obviously not everyone is gonig to use every service.
i personally have no need for recycling service, i am completely capable of bringing my familys recycling to the center on my own. however i have to pay for that out of my tax money even though i dont want to (is that considered THEFT mr paine?).
i will not cry about, i will pay for it because i realize i pay for services i dont need or want to use- and other people are pay for things i use and they dont.

Fully agreed, the library, the pool, the rec center are all considered to be a luxury item, and when you have police, boro employees, and teachers being laid off you dispose of your luxurys for essential services. Much like running your own households, but the council has politicians who affected basic services in this town over luxury items in which produce few votes. Shame on them! Why do we have the community school and how much does this cost taxpayers?

Thomas, Well put

Paine, I'd need a cite for 'library cards issued' -- because my library card was 'issued' when I moved to town, not in 2011. The BCCLS page I found with the 'registered' information says that 58% of Fair Lawn is registered-- http://www.bccls.org/buckles/stats/PatronRegistration/Patron_Registration_2011.shtml. It also says http://www.bccls.org/buckles/stats/AnalyzingExpenses/AnalyzingExpenses2010.htm the library costs about $71 per capita (about average) as of 2010. (So, basically 2 O'Reilly books, or 3.5 graphic novels at B&N/Amazon prices)

WOW!
The loss of three hours on Tuesdays sure has generated the use of a lot of words.

I'm not sure why T. Paine thinks the number of times each book in the library collection would circulate if each book circulated the same number of times is 'more relevant'. Probably because the number looks bad.

Fair Lawn library circulation appears to have peaked in 2009, with 414,596 circs, if I'm reading this right. Numbers have gone down in 2010 and 2011, but the number of books borrowed from OTHER libraries by Fair Lawn residents has gone up. That suggests the cutting of hours in Fair Lawn in 2010-11 might have something to do with the lower circulation numbers.

What's even creepier is that we are both arguing using internal stats generated from the BCCLS online system, with no definitions of what they mean. It occurred to me that the circulation numbers could in fact be sorted by date of publication of the book.

*snort* 'the more relevant number' being the collection turnover? Dude, dude. There's an easy but work intensive way of raising your collection turnover. Weed. Pull the 'dusty' books-- the ones that haven't circulated. Unfortunately, weeding takes time (and selling the books is unlikely to net enough money to cover the cost of weeding). Fewer books in the collection not circulating, the 'turnover' rate goes up. Low turnover usually means a need to weed.

You want to know what the numbers really are? Ask the director. Or the President of the Library Board. Or, ask Zak to interview the director, or call BCCLS. Or just show up at a Library Board meeting, last Wednesday of the month. (I got all those suggestions by looking at http://www.fairlawnlibrary.org/about-us

Encyclopedia Britannica will no longer offer a print version after 244 years.
Times change.

Yup, the Britannica will no longer offer a print version. And it will still be cheaper to have your library subscribe to the Britannica online and you use it only when you need to, than to have everyone have their own little subscriptions. :) It's not currently offered by the state consortium through Jerseyclicks or through BCCLS (http://www.bccls.org/databases/log-in.shtml) , but it could be in the future-- assuming we still have a library.

P.S. Geeking the library-- all the stuff on http://www.bccls.org/databases/log-in.shtml is available from your house or anywhere you connect to the Internet, not just in the building, as long as you have a library card number (which you can get online, without coming into the building, if you are in a hurry!)

*snort* The collection turnover number is actually as I described it, which is good because, you know, I'm a librarian (not at a public library) and you're not. How do I know? I asked the guy who used to work there and who ran that number. And yes, weeding does drive up your turnover rate. Deal, dude.
Plus, your 'use' number is flawed, because it assumes ever person who used the library is reflected by the number of card uses, where card uses only represent card uses. We don't have the gate statistics-- how many people entered and left the building, so we can't compare that. 6.89% of the population of Fair Lawn, being under 5, can't have a library card; but there are people under 5 in the library-- and thus using it. Fair Lawn doesn't appear to have a problem with people getting extra cards to get more time on the computers (one some public libraries do have). So you don't have that.
However: suppose 30% of the community uses the library. Well, about 30% of the community is even ELIGIBLE to use senior citizen services too, eh?

The pool is a different issue, and one thing I am hoping that they will now do is let town residents sponsor people from other towns. Fair Lawn government does a bad job of publicizing resources and facilities. People would join the pool if the pool had a great website, nothing splashy but definitely something with pictures. The library, I use because I don't like buying books or ereaders, and I am young and have young kids. I don't go to the storytimes, for a variety of reasons but they are good and the library is a good place to meet. One thing I would like to see it do is allow outside groups to use the large space they have, even if they charged a small fee it would be worth it. There isn't even a "Fair lawn" town facebook site run by the government. Or a library facebook site, nothing promoting. No flyers around town nothing. Ultimately, we all pay for things we don't use. But I do feel if the town marketed what they have better it would help.

The pool site definitely isn't very good-- last year it never even listed the date the pool was originally scheduled to close! More and better info on these sites-- with pictures, as the other poster said- could help.

I admit I plan to email the library, too, because last weekend I looked to see what the hours were for the holiday weekend and they weren't posted. That's just silly!
On the other hand, having to use the Fair Lawn schools' site I find it a real boondoggle, badly thought-out and designed.

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