Teachers Union Takes Stand at Board of Ed Meeting
Teachers came out in full force Thursday to speak out about the pace of contract negotiations with the Board of Education
Photos
At last month’s Board of Education meeting, while high school parents and school board members offered rebuke after stinging rebuke to Fair Lawn teachers for not writing college recommendation letters, FLEA president Gene Kuffel sat quietly alone toward the back of the room and took it.
The tables were turned Thursday when a sea of Fair Lawn teachers fed-up with contract negotiations descended on Edison School and forced a move of the Board of Education meeting from Room 19 to the school's gymnasium to accommodate the crowd.
Without enough chairs to seat the almost 200 people who came out Thursday, dozens sat on the floor or stood around the gym’s perimeter.
This time, Kuffel sat in the front row, surrounded by colleagues and eager to speak for them.
When the floor opened for public comment, Kuffel read a prepared speech castigating the Board of Education for the lack of progress being made on contract negotiations and for previously questioning the teachers’ dedication to their students. The speech, which lasted almost 10 minutes, was repeatedly interrupted by loud standing applause by the teachers in attendance.
“We hear you, our Board of Education, say how you have been treated unfairly by the governor over the past two years,” Kuffel said during his speech, referring to deep state education cuts, “yet it’s your actions to prolong negotiations that speak even louder than the governor’s words.”
“At last month’s Board of Education meeting, you said you were appalled by your teachers for fulfilling their expired contractual obligation,” he continued. “I don’t quite understand the concept behind this and why you were so upset. If I were to hire a company to install a carpet, should I be upset that they don’t paint the walls? No. You should be appalled, but with yourselves for prolonging negotiations.”
Kuffel then got down to the apparent sticking point in negotiations, health care premiums. He said that FLEA had offered an insurance plan that would save more than $1 million each year in premiums, but which had been refused by the Board.
“You continue to push a health insurance plan that is an unnecessary financial burden to the taxpayers and teachers,” Kuffel said. “In most cases as a result of your insurance proposal, teachers will never make more money than they did last year. Ever.”
Kuffel then called out board president Michael Rosenberg directly.
“I am ashamed of public school teachers in other districts who have such blatant disregard and disrespect for their colleagues here in Fair Lawn,” Kuffel said of Rosenberg, who teaches in the Hillsdale School District. “It is unforgivable to have a board president say that he doesn’t respect their teachers, which is what you said, Mr. Rosenberg, at last month’s Board of Education meeting.
“Before you say something like that,” Kuffel continued, “please remember that these teachers who you say you don’t respect, produce a 99 percent success rate of Fair Lawn students who go on to attend post-secondary education at colleges, universities, trade schools and the military. Remember that our high school AP success rate exceeds that of New Jersey, which has the highest scores in the nation.”
Kuffel concluded by stating that he had a clear conscience and wanted nothing more than a fair contract for Fair Lawn teachers.
“As a math teacher, my vocation tells me that numbers don’t lie,” he said in closing. “The Fair Lawn Education Association is trying to save you more than $1 million in annual health insurance premiums and we’re being targeted as the bad guy? The numbers don’t add up.”
Board President Rosenberg clarified the comments he made about Fair Lawn teachers last month, and explained that they had been taken out of context.
“My comments last month were about high school recommendations that the Fair Lawn Education Association decided they weren’t going to do,” Rosenberg said. “There were parents in the audience that asked questions about it and unfortunately, yes, that affects every one of us. That affects everybody in Fair Lawn if the Fair Lawn Education Association is not willing to do those recommendations, because it affects our students getting into colleges.”
Rosenberg said he had never otherwise spoken negatively about any of the work that Fair Lawn teachers do.
“As a matter of fact, I go out of my way, as the record has proven, to say what wonderful things Fair Lawn teachers do and accomplish every day,” he said. “And you do. The Fair Lawn teachers are the best, I think. The best in the county, the best in the state, and I really hope that we can come to an agreement soon.”
No sort of agreement appeared close last night.
Eugene Banta, lead negotiator for the Board of Ed, said they disagree with the extent of savings the teacher’s proposed plan offers.
“We don’t agree with the numbers,” Banta said of the $1 million savings figured touted by Kuffel. “It’s as simple as that.”
Banta said the Board would meet next month with a fact finder on Nov. 30, and also with their insurance professionals, for the fourth time.
One resident and retired educator, Martin Lasus, who spoke publicly on behalf of the teachers, wondered why negotiations were moving so slowly.
“Did it take a formal meeting for you (Banta) to tell him (Kuffel) that his numbers don’t jibe? Couldn’t you sit down with him and show him how you prove his numbers wrong?” Lasus asked Banta. “This doesn’t make sense why it’s taking so long to work this out.”
Fair Lawn teachers have been working under an expired contract since June 30, 2010.
--
Here is the full transcript of Gene Kuffel's speech to the Board of Education:
"Teaching is both a vocation and avocation. For those of us who actually teach, the challenges and joys of being a teacher is one we eagerly accept with dignity, pride and dedication. As teachers, we have earned the proper degree, certification, credentials and take additional training needed to educate a classroom of students.
As an avocation, we are called to teach from the depths of our souls in an effort to give our youth the skills needed to be independent thinkers, to handle with confidence life’s challenges and joys, and the character to graciously accept life’s rewards.
Not everyone can be a teacher and not everyone is good enough to be a Fair Lawn teacher. I’ve been fortunate enough to travel internationally where I am honored to say that I am a teacher. You see in another country, I’m looked upon and treated with the utmost respect because I’m a teacher. Something I’m unlikely to find in my own backyard or even a Board of Education meeting.
Yet teaching is also a vocation. It’s a means of financial support to provide for ourselves and our families. We simply ask to be among the middle class.
Unfortunately, our governor and some state lawmakers have decided to blame the state’s middle class workers for New Jersey’s financial problems. I get that teachers, police officers and paid firefighters are easy targets to pinpoint the blame and there are a lot of uninformed individuals out there who believe this and feed both into and off of this tactical approach.
But we aren’t the problem. We never were the problem. I guess the governor had to blame someone other than his wife for the state’s financial woes. After all, she’s one of the Wall Street investment brokers who created our financial crisis while making over a half a million dollars a year working part time, and that doesn’t include her bonuses.
What’s worse than the governor’s words over the past two years, are the actions by those who are eager to jump on the Chris Christie bandwagon. We hear you, our Board of Education, say how you have been treated unfairly by the governor over the past two years, yet it’s your actions to prolong negotiations that speak even louder than the governor’s words.
At last month’s Board of Education meeting, you said you were appalled by your teachers for fulfilling their expired contractual obligation. I don’t quite understand the concept behind this and why you were so upset.
If I were to hire a company to install a carpet, should I be upset that they don’t pain the walls? No. You should be appalled, but with yourselves for prolonging negotiations. You have used your teachers as pawns. Worse than that, you continue to use their children as pawns and this is not cute.
The Fair Lawn Education Association has offered an insurance plan that provides more than $1 million in annual insurance premium savings. Numbers don’t lie. So far you have refused to accept this offer.
Instead you continue to push a health insurance plan that is an unnecessary financial burden to the taxpayers and teachers. In most cases as a result of your insurance proposal, teachers will never make more money than they did last year. Ever.
Anyone with foresight should be able to see that the future of education is in grave danger. Who will we get to teach our students if those charged with their education can’t ever get a financial footing to provide for themselves, afford to have a family or even fulfill the dream of being a homeowner?
This brings most of our members to tears. Yet you are still asking taxpayers and teachers to pay more in annual insurance premiums to the same insurance plan, and those are the words from your insurance broker, that they are the same plan.
According to my calculations, some of our teachers could easily be paying upwards of $10,000 extra in health insurance contributions in the next four years for your proposed health insurance plan over our proposal.
If anyone should be appalled it should be the taxpayers and teaching staff who aren’t provided with having an affordable insurance plan.
Our ad in the Community News last week speaks for itself. At last month’s Board of Education meeting, a board member asked how we can sleep at night. While I greatly appreciate your concern, but the truth be told, it’s not easy to sleep at night.
It’s sometimes difficult for Fair Lawn teachers to sleep as they worry about how they’ll pay the mortgage, utility and food since they may never make more than they did last year. Our teachers have difficulty sleeping as they worry whether or not the copy machine will be working in the morning so students have the resources (inaudible due to loud applause).
Or how they’ll pay for the copies they had to make at Staples because the copiers didn’t work (Applause).
And they also lose sleep wondering how they’ll effectively teach curriculum without having the necessary computer programs installed two months into the school year.
Teachers in Fair Lawn are justifiably afraid they are going to be required to once again pay for ancillary benefits again. Thus, difficulty sleeping.
Teachers may not be sleeping because they fear their student learning is impacted by the loss of librarians in the elementary schools (Applause).
Not to mention the reduction of elementary art and music programs (Applause).
And teachers may not be sleeping at night because they’re too busy planning lessons derived from increased curriculum demands that cannot be done in the course of two hours of planning per week (Applause).
And let’s not forget those teachers who are not sleeping at night because they spend upwards of two to five hours writing each college recommendation letter for students (Applause).
In recent years, one teacher spent more than 100 hours writing college recommendations. That equates to two-and-a-half 40-hour work weeks.
I am a teacher. I am also a member of NJEA. I am ashamed. I am ashamed of public school teachers in other districts who have such blatant disregard and disrespect for their colleagues here in Fair Lawn. It is unforgivable to have a board president say that he doesn’t respect their teachers, which is what you said Mr. Rosenberg at last month’s Board of Education meeting. (Long applause and cheering).
Before you say something like that, please remember that these teachers who you say you don’t respect, produce a 99 percent success rate of Fair Lawn students who go on to attend post-secondary education at colleges, universities, trade schools and the military. Remember that our high school AP success rate exceeds that of New Jersey, which has the highest scores in the nation.
And remember, we are the ones who educate your children. I have a clear conscience because I know I honestly and honorably advocate for nothing more than a fair contract for our members and still try to save your taxpayers money. I am one of the priceless professionals offering millions in savings.
To the parents and taxpayers of Fair Lawn, I started out by saying that teaching is both a vocation and an avocation. I love what I do educating your children to achieve academic, social and emotional excellence. This is my avocation. As a math teacher, my vocation tells me that numbers don’t lie. The Fair Lawn Education Association is trying to save you more than $1 million in annual health insurance premiums and we’re being targeted as the bad guy? The numbers don’t add up. (Loud applause and cheering).
PatienceWorth
1:31 pm on Friday, October 21, 2011
If the teachers don't like their compensation, quit. Go find someone that will pay for your time in higher salary, shorter hours and more benefits.
See how that works for you.
Paquas
1:49 pm on Sunday, October 23, 2011
You clearly have no concept of teaching. I am not a teacher but have many friends and acquantiences who are. Most of them work more hours than I do (and I am in private industry) for the same or less compensation. There profession now not only includes teaching but picking up for the slack for lack parenting skills from many families. Before woicing your opinion try teaching a class including marking tests and writing lesson plans in addition to dealing with the everyday politics that pervades all schools.
Fedup
3:23 pm on Friday, October 21, 2011
PATIENCE do you work for less than you are worth? These teachers have been working without a contract, they many times pay for items necessary to do thier jobs efficiently and are the people that help mold our children. You are obviously one of those residents with their hand outstretched grabbing all you can while contributong nothing to the community .. except complaints and attitide. I applaude these fine educators and stand with them
KS
12:46 pm on Saturday, October 22, 2011
They may be working without a contract but they are not working for free. Their jobs are not more important than any one else's and as long as they are getting paid (quite well), including free or nearly free healthcare, pension, off for every holiday under the sun and several months in the summer. That is a lot more than any of us are getting. I, as a taxpayer am tired of the entitlement attitude. There are a lot of dedicated teachers but there are just as many who do their jobs quite poorly or just enough to get by just like in any other profession. We've dealt with quite a few of those and the damage they do to their studentgs can be quite extensive with few reprocussions for the teachers. Those of us with jobs are all working hard and we are happy to have those jobs in this economy.
7 out
3:45 pm on Friday, October 21, 2011
Letters of recommendation are not contractually required. Suck it boe
KS
12:31 pm on Saturday, October 22, 2011
With teacher supporters like yourself, it's no wonder our education system is going down the tubes.
BellairBerdan
4:01 pm on Friday, October 21, 2011
Unfortunately there are those that will never accept or understand the amount of time teachers really put in to their jobs and the amounts of their own money they use to buy supplies. They view it as a child who is there form 9-3. Good luck teachers. Fight the good fight. Keep a middle class in America.
KS
12:54 pm on Saturday, October 22, 2011
Yes we have all heard this line before. However, the rest of us don't get the benefit of 9-3 and then go home and finish our work. The rest of us work a full day 8-6 or 7 and then often go home and work some more. The 9-3 should not be their full day, not when you factor in what each teacher costs these days which is well in excess of $100k. School districts are cutting programs right and left because of the high cost of personnel and yet the unions want those costs to go even higher. Demaning higher salaries and benefits in an economy where private salaries are stagnating and private benefits such as healthcare insurance costs are going up is patently arrogant and absurd. They are part of the larger economy which at this stage cannot absorb ever rising municipal costs.
1happygirl
5:11 pm on Friday, October 21, 2011
Mr. Kuffel, yes, the Board of ed is treating you like garbage, no different than the council did to the police, all fueled by the league of municipalities and Christie. Minions following their blind leaders. Pray you don't get Insurance design administrators as your health insurance!!!!
Go Figure
8:26 pm on Friday, October 21, 2011
My family and I all salute our teachers. It is not the easy job that many try to portray it as and quite frankly my kids are worth every penny! It's time to stop beating up on our public servants and realize who created this mess and continue to destroy our economy.
Deborah Swan-Halpin
10:28 pm on Friday, October 21, 2011
I applaud the teachers for not writing recommendations. Those letters take hours and must be done on your own time, which people don't realize. No teacher wants to negatively impact their students, but when you are treated with such disrespect, well, then, it's time the students are effected. Only then will the parents come to your support!
Stay strong and stay united!!
KS
1:06 pm on Saturday, October 22, 2011
What disrespect, they are paid a good salary, nearly free healthcare, and pension which is unheard of in the private sector. Oh yes, 9-3 hours and off for every holiday under the sun. Yes they do have to do some work after 3 or 3:30pm but so does everybody else with a full time job. Only in the union world would this be considered "disrespect". Teaching is not an easy job but neither is most work out there. There is nothing disrespectful about what the board of education is doing. Their job is to get the best possible contract for the taxpayers. They are the ones getting it from both sides, the taxpayers and the unions. I applaud them for their hardcore negotiations on behalf of the taxpayers. They weren't elected to rollover everytime the unions said boo. They were elected to conduct hard core negotiations and that is what they have done. Every schoolboard should be this strong in the face of such nastiness and hysterics from the unions.
Mike
10:47 am on Saturday, October 22, 2011
@PatienceWorth: when was the last time you had to buy supplies, out of your own pocket, to keep your job?
Deborah Swan-Halpin
1:25 pm on Saturday, October 22, 2011
Alla, I have been teaching for 36 years and I don't make $100,000, let alone, in excesss of, that you seem to think teachers make. Also, when school is not in session for July/Aug. (which by the way, is how the "system" has worked, teachers didn't make that rule), we DON'T get paid! I also contribute to my health benefits and have contributed to my pension since the day I began teaching. You, know, Alla, you could have been called to this profession, but clearly, you weren't....you are just another misinformed person who thinks you know all about education. I am proud of being a teacher and always will be, and yes, I know I am fortunate to be employed, but that doesn't mean I have to accept being attacked by ignorant people. Get your facts right before you share your opinions.
KS
3:39 pm on Saturday, October 22, 2011
Deborah, I am glad that my children don't have you as a teacher. Any teacher that applauds, supports or employs tactics that have a negative impact on the children they teach is not a teacher that was "called" to the profession. No, I don't know everything about the profession but many if not most of us know more than you give us ignorants credit for. We have spent decades in the school systems both as children and parents so yes we know quite a bit. As far as you making a $100k your salary is just one piece of the cost, the various benefits are extremely expensive even with your 1.5% or even 5% contribution to your healthcare costs. Most of us these days contribute between 30-50% to health and forget pensions and 55 year retirement. That just doesn't exist outside the realm of the government. My mother spent decades working as a seamstress for far less money and very little benefits and an attitude far more positive than yours. She would have never condoned or considered tactics that would have a negative impact on any child and that is the kind of person I respect.
Mike
5:45 pm on Sunday, October 23, 2011
@Malcolm: While salary info for all public employees is public, I think your posting someone's info here is really a DICK move. You can make your point while respecting others' privacy. My money says you're probably one of those gun-toting TeaBaggers. I see from your other posts that you're an avid supporter of the corporate takeover of government and America in general. No surprise. How's your Ronald Reagan blow-up doll doing?
Mike
6:17 pm on Sunday, October 23, 2011
@Malcolm: You conflate teachers and the NJEA. Two different things. The union's job is to look out for the interests of its members. The teachers' job is to do their best to educate the students - all students - they're given. I'm sure you get to fire your subordinates who don't produce; teachers have to work with whatever they're given. I'm sure you have no problem with corporations pursuing profits AT ANY COST.
You're still an @$$hole for posting personal info.
Mike
6:20 pm on Sunday, October 23, 2011
@Malcolm: Why don't you just say that all teachers and other public employees should be contract employees who are paid minimum wage with no benefits? How much should they be paid? There's a question I've been asking haters for years, and no one can/will answer it. Maybe when you're done with Ronnie you can take a stab at it.
Mike
6:34 pm on Sunday, October 23, 2011
@Malcolm: Until it's privatized (don't worry, that's a WHEN not an IF), how much should they make? How much should police make? The president? The governor? Legislators? Do you think the "free market" decides that a CEO gets $250M for screwing up (former CEO of Home Depot)?
If you like a complete lack of government and regulations, may I suggest Somalia?
Go Figure
4:30 pm on Saturday, October 22, 2011
I don't get this constant socialist mantra of: "If I can't have it, neither can you." This seems to be new mentality. This is not an American mentality by any stretch of the imagination. Very scarey to me. Teachers: hold your heads high -- you are appreciated by most!
KS
5:56 am on Sunday, October 23, 2011
Actually, unions and union policies are socialist mantra and have been around for quite some time. Unfortunately they have been growing as the government expands. The bigger our government grows the more socialist in nature our country be becomes. Take a look at Europe, that is exactly where we are heading. If you look at current our current government, they are the ones agitating for income redistribution, i.e. "I want what you want whether I earned it or not".
Mike
3:55 pm on Sunday, October 23, 2011
Saint Ronnie said it best:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oITaWo5z1IQ
Mike
7:42 pm on Saturday, October 22, 2011
@GoFigure: It's not so much socialist as it is a RACE TO THE BOTTOM, which is exactly what cretins like Chris Christie and the rest of the élite want: the middle class to fight with itself while the 1% bathe in the spoils.
@Alla: Yes, pensions in the private sector are almost non-existent; however, most people I know in the private sector have 401(k) plans, and virtually all of those come with a FREE MATCH from the employer. Effectively, that's what public employee pensions USED to be: the employee put in some (5.5% - 8.5%) and the employer (NJ) would put money in, too. HOWEVER, for most of the past dozen-plus years, the employer (NJ) has balked and paid NO contribution, even though it's LEGALLY REQUIRED. I imagine if your employer promised to match 3% to your 6% 401(k) contribution (the most common arrangement I've seen), then failed to do it, you'd be less than thrilled. Perhaps you'd seek a higher salary to offset the broken promise on the benefit end. Other private-sector perks include stock options, bonuses, ESOPs, and post-1960 desks, chairs, not having to buy your own office supplies, etc.
Are there private sector employees who have no 401(k) and crappy or no medical coverage? Sure. But if one looks at accountants, engineers, and others with similar education and certifications requirements [as teachers], it's a fair comparison.
@Deborah: Yes, summers are essentially UNPAID FURLOUGH.
KS
6:29 am on Sunday, October 23, 2011
Mike lets not confuse pensions and 401(k) they may have similarities but in no way shape or form are they the same thing. Your pension is what is commonly referred to as a defined benefit plan, which offer guaranteed automatic payouts in retirement based on a formula that usually takes into account your salary and years of service. The longer you work and the more you make, the higher your automatic payouts. If the government invests it poorly or doesn't fully fund it you will still be paid because the taxpayers will be on the hook to pay you anyway. A 401k is a defined contribution plan that is dependent on the returns of the investments that are chosen within them. Thus you can conceivably end up with nothing as the market turns. Until the 1980s most companies had pension plans. However, once the IRS introduced the 401k, they realized that the 401ks were much more cost effective and did not leave them on the hook to pay retirement benefits when the markets turned. I can't imagine too many people these days who would rather have a 401k plan than a pension plan. Neither is fully secure but most of us would take a pension over a 401k any time.
Please also note that given the current economic climate seeking higher salaries to offset broken promises is a pipe dream and we all know what stock options are worth these days.Your comparison isn't fair because you are comparing professions that are governed by union/contract rules vs professions that are subject to the free market
Mike
8:59 am on Sunday, October 23, 2011
@Alla: I agree totally that defined-benefit pensions and 401(k) plans are different. My comparison was meant to show, loosely, that pensions are the main retirement plan for public, and 401(k) for private, and that many 401(k) recipients get free money (the match). I've seen hundreds of posts equating the two; if I did so, that wasn't the intent. I'm usually better at explaining.
As far as automatic payouts and the taxpayer being on the hook, you're kidding, right? You really think, long-term, that when push comes to shove, if it's a choice between reneging on pension commitments or raising taxes, that public pensions will win? Christie has already broken his promise to leave pensions alone. I'm sure people with 401(k) plans prior to March 2000 and in the early-mid 2000s weren't singing the blues. Historically, public employment offered lower salaries, more stability, good benefits, and a decent retirement. Low risk, but no one got rich. Private offered, albeit with more risk, the chance to make a LOT more money. Pensions are deferred compensation, right? I predict within ten years most public jobs, including teachers', will be in the realm of companies like Halliburton and Parsons. Huge private firms with strong government connections. The top 5% will reap incredible compensation, and the bottom 95% (the ones without connections, the ones who do the work) will receive working-poor pay with no benefits, retirement, etc. The taxpayers will rejoice and Nero will fiddle.
Mike
7:52 pm on Saturday, October 22, 2011
@Patience: What *should* a person with 10 years' experience and a master's degree* be paid to teach your children? Should she/he get benefits? Should she/he be able to afford a decent house in a middle-class neighborhood? Teachers in most of the world are highly respected and often well-paid. Over the past two years in NJ they're now just above politicians and prostitutes on the popularity scale. By your logic, a new teacher making $40K/yr, who would take home $32K or so, should pay $12K for medical coverage, leaving him/her with $20K to live on. If you agree, go to your local BoE meeting and pitch this.
* The average teacher in NJ has close to 10 yrs' experience and close to a master's degree, and makes around $57K according to some articles in various publications. The median income for a Goldman Sachs employee, by comparison, is $292,836 (source: http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2011/10/18/are-you-average-at-goldman-sachs-your-pay-is-292836/). "But my tax dollars don't pay for that," you might say. I have a four-letter word for you: TARP!
KS
6:52 am on Sunday, October 23, 2011
Goldman Sachs employees work 80-90 hour weeks if they are lucky with very little or no job security if they don't perform. They don't get summers off and many of the work through holidays and weekends. Their clients can't be told to go away for a half day, full day or a week so they can catch up on their work.
If you are looking at government waste lets look at FNMA alone not to mention its sister organizations as well as Solyndra and its spawn. All of them have cost us and will continue to cost us billions of dollars and put together they dwarf TARP. A number of the banks have already paid back their TARP funds and the government has actually managed to make some money off those loans. The same cannot be said of FMNA or Solyndra or any of the other wonderful investments that government has made. Imagine how many teachers could have been hired on Solyndra alone.
Mike
9:12 am on Sunday, October 23, 2011
@Alla: Yup, GS employees work a lot, have a lot of risk, but that's a killer payoff. I guess if they don't make the cut they can get cushy teacher jobs, though. It's a choice, right? Students can "be told to go away for a half day, full day, or a week"? Please list those districts that offer that option to teachers. If you're referring to planned days off (NJ requires 180 or more days of instruction), and you think it unfair, petition your local BoE and the state DoE to run schools 220 (52 x 5) days a year. Or, since you brought it up, 365 days/yr in support of our poor Wall Street brethren. BTW, have you tried substitute teaching for a week in an urban district? Pass a background check, a TB test, and have 60 liberal arts credits, and try it. And summers off are unpaid furlough as I've previously stated, unless you're a teacher who uses that time to get MANDATORY professional development, write curriculum, etc. Many teachers I know DO work summers: they run camps, tutor, etc., and that's not taxpayer-funded, so why do so many people take issue with it? If it's so lucrative, sell your BMW and McMansion and become a teacher. With a master's you might start at $50K.
There are websites dedicated to gummint waste. I'd start with trillion-dollar wars launched on lies and bailouts of private entities whose purpose is to avoid paying the very taxes that save their bacon, but that's another matter.
How much should a teacher make, and with what benefits (medical/retirement)???
mia
8:23 pm on Saturday, October 22, 2011
I am a NJ teacher. It worries me; people are so angry yet send their children to public school bashing, "I am glad that my children don't have you as a teacher."
I love educating, mentoring, & guiding your children to become self actualized & confident in a tumultuous world. Most teachers I know feel as I do. I've schooled all over the US and never exper. the level of professionalism & commitment to teaching as teachers of the last couple of decades.
Teachers I know are: paid under 70k, some well under (in this state, that's rough, especially given the increase in single income households,) they get to work at 7:30 and stay until 4, 6, even 10 pm grading and planning; all pay for health benefits & pension, pay for materials, are ethical & dedicated, and many have more than 10 yrs of schooling and 75k or more in student loans, work 2/3 jobs--can you say that about ppl you reference? The reality of being a teacher is under realized. Aren't children the reason we invest? I know we all have exper. with being students and parents, but is the teacher, the police officer, the fire fighter the one to attack or uphold? Being a civil servant is a calling, one that we take seriously. Seems jaded that one would attack so vehemently those who aim to protect and serve--isn't that counter-productive? You want the middle class worker to be undervalued and targeted in the grand scheme? That will have long-term ramifications. Think foresight before casting destructive boulders.
KS
7:03 am on Sunday, October 23, 2011
While I applaud all the dedicated teachers out there I do get angry at teachers who openly promote tactics that would hurt the very children they supposedly love. It's sheer hypcricy to label it a calling and then promote tactics that negatively impact their students. That kind of behavior leads to anything but respect.
Mike
9:17 am on Sunday, October 23, 2011
@Alla: I, personally, would never refuse to write a recommendation or offer extra help. But there needs to be a way to pressure a BoE to negotiate in good faith. What would you suggest teachers/administrators/staff do when a BoE won't negotiate? And while you say you "applaud all the dedicated teachers" your other posts here imply (or I infer) that they're overpaid and underworked. What's a fair compensation package, since you seem so well versed in such things?
mia
8:38 pm on Saturday, October 22, 2011
If the powers that be are wanting to push the majority of teachers out of NJ, then they should continue in this manner, as we are not going to be able to afford to live here, Period. I see the first wave of exodus coming. Goal? If so, it's a sad day for America and the dreams we were all brought up on.
Mike
9:05 pm on Saturday, October 22, 2011
BTW, it's now law that NJ public school teachers MUST live in NJ.
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/05/gov_christie_signs_bill_requir.html
Mike
9:30 pm on Saturday, October 22, 2011
I know a LOT of people who commute from either the Pocono area or near Easton (and some even toward Philadelphia) into central NJ. I know people who commute from Forked River and that area to Middlesex County. I would not and could not for myriad reasons, and I'm thankful I don't have to. It also depends on your definition of affordable or decent. If it's a choice between $2200/month and 20 mins commute and $1650/month and 1h10m commute...my time (and sanity) is worth it.
Also unlike the public sector, once you're in a district for a while, you can't move to another district without taking a HUGE (up to 50%) pay cut; districts today are offering very experienced people at or near-bottom salaries - same as 23 yr old with one year experience. In the private sector, you can/should expect to make about the same if you move, assuming you're being paid fairly to begin with.
One could argue free market, supply/demand, and all that, but in the public sector it doesn't reverse when times improve (not that I expect times to improve within the next 5 years, at least).
I'm *very* thankful to have a job in this rotten economy. I have a decent commute, and for now my bills are getting paid. I'm sure glad I'm not 23 and just starting out. I think the truly lucky are the ones around 66 who got out a year ago (private or public).
KS
6:51 pm on Sunday, October 23, 2011
Mike, your use of the word "TeaBaggers" is ignorant and inappropriate. I have no doubt you are fully aware of the meaning of the word. Whether you agree with the Tea Party or not is your business but using sexually loaded and derogatory terms against people with opposing political views is unworthy and inappropriate of a teacher with 36 years of experience.
KS
8:18 pm on Sunday, October 23, 2011
I hope you're not saying the government is better at making sound investments. Afterall they've done such a great job in the mortgage, student loan, green energy businesses that we should have them run everything under the sun. While your're at it try picking on the rich outside the finance or banking industry. Try the highly underpaid Hollywood crowd or maybe the billion dollar athletes. No one seems to have an issue with the millions they're getting paid or the BMWs they drive.
Mike
8:48 pm on Sunday, October 23, 2011
@Alla: There's plenty of gummint waste (though I believe a LOT of that is connected to nefarious relationships with the private sector). And while I personally think actors and athletes are overpaid, Malcolm might point out that this is a great example of the Free Market [sic] at work. Furthermore, the number of overpaid jocks and actors is tiny compared to the number of banksters and other white-collar thieves. The system is rigged. I have no beef with the legitimate rich: like the restaurateur friend of mine who is self-made and gives back to the community and doesn't screw anyone over for what he has. My issue is with the bigger fish who scream "dont' tax me, I'm a job creator!" while laying off people left and right while eagerly taking every dime they can get from the taxpayer (i.e., socialized losses)...those who want it both ways. Does Exxon, the most profitable company on Earth, as I recall, really need incentives to look for oil? Let the market decide that one.
To get back to the topic at hand, the way things are set up is the LOCAL teacher's union works with the LOCAL BoE to agree on a contract. Gov. Krispy Kreme pushed all kinds of laws that severely limit what can even be discussed/bargained, yet many BoE have walked away from negotiations. Teachers deserve a fair contract - nothing more, nothing less, and the BoE took its toys and went home.
Bruce Knuckle
11:44 pm on Saturday, October 22, 2011
FLBOE...fix this, you are causing all of the issues
LETSbReasonable
11:08 am on Sunday, October 23, 2011
I want my teachers paid the best they can be paid, my tax dollars and the budget says so. Why would one want your children, MY children, OUR children taught by people earning less than what their college degrees are worth? When a teacher is well paid, provided for, it in turn equates into an atmosphere where they want to teach our children. How about paying police 20k a year? Would you want that armed person with little respect for his/her job coming to your home? Pay is respect, and respect your public employees!
LENNY
11:13 am on Sunday, October 23, 2011
two points missing in all the above. in the private world cuts are made at the top not with the board of eduction in fair lawn now many supv positions have they cut over the years we have a person who retired as to not pay for medical was hired back on a per day rate. great system get a pension and a pay check. if I DID THIS MY PENSION WOULD STOP this is under civil service with the government. did they take this long the last time they gave the supit his raise. last point their should be a law teachers should not hold board positions how can you site and judge your peers when you all have the same interests and unions. you can go at each other all night the system is broke from the top down. each town has to have their own rules and each of us is paying the bill.
LETSbReasonable
11:14 am on Sunday, October 23, 2011
Mike, I love the cigar, You deserve your pension and we appreciate your hard work as an educator. Enjoy retirement, let the jealous people know with "every lighting of each cigar" how hard you worked while you were employed!
Mike
3:48 pm on Sunday, October 23, 2011
@Lets: I don't want a cigar. Just fair compensation for the work and "forfeiting" the perks (and risk) of private industry. And, as I said before, I don't anticipate anyone with fewer than 15 years and less than 50 years old today getting much, if anything, at retirement. The airlines screwed the employees by declaring bankruptcy (and in the process, were liberated of any/all pension liabilities).
@Lenny: BoE members are volunteers, as far as I know. That said, there are superintendents who "don't work out" who, like CEOs, get parachutes (usually in the form of getting paid for the rest of their contract, even though they're not working). I don't get it for CEOs or superintendents. If I suck, I'm out of a job. If a CEO drives a company into the ground, he gets millions. And that "day rate" game i
Are their public workers who loaf/coast and are overpaid? Sure. At least as many as there are in private industry (you know, the person who rolls in late, surfs the web, plans her son's bar mitzvah or confirmation party, takes 8 smoke breaks, 90-minute lunch, then complains how busy she is). At least for teachers, they wash out early - 50% of teachers don't make the 5-year mark (and leave teaching altogether), which explains why so few are canned down the road. I doubt any other profession has such an attrition rate. Hey, think for a moment: out there are doctors who finished LAST in their class or on their Board exams, and they have people's lives in their hands!
Moe Larky
3:04 pm on Sunday, October 23, 2011
LENNY. What crap! The Supt of achools makes enuff money to pay 5 teachers and yet they lay off and cut back while he and his assistant, yea thats right his assistant,continue to make more! DID YOU KNOW. His assistant collects s pension and is paid hourly? !?
Mike
6:25 pm on Sunday, October 23, 2011
Here ya go...I told you so...the pension system will collapse, no matter what, largely due to no contributions (which were legally required, but no consequences for the State):
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/10/christie_fix_didnt_save_nj_pen.html
On deck: social security and medicare.
I'm sure Malcolm is happy.
KS
7:10 pm on Sunday, October 23, 2011
Actually we're looking more like Greece everyday, growing government and growing debt. That should make the union crowd happy.
Mike
7:27 pm on Sunday, October 23, 2011
@Alla: Who said anything about bigger government? Look how well privatizing our military worked (Halliburton, Blackwater, etc.). Simple solutions to complex problems...I expected more from your, given the decency of your posts. Sorry about the 'bagger moniker . I will use Tea Party Patriots™ going forward. But check this out: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/12/to-teabag-or-not-thats-still-the-question-for-conservatives.php
@Malcolm: I'm sure you have no problem paying your BMW mechanic or golf instructor $100/hr, yet you think teachers should make babysitter pay? Actually, that post isn't worthy of a response. But let me ask you this: I know a man who worked in private industry for 25 years, then state gummint (not in NJ) for 15 (low-level job, actually). He was in a union. He collects a pension for which he contributed nothing (unlike in NJ). He collects social security and uses Medicare. He hates unions and government and has told me Rush Limbaugh should be president (and he meant it). Is he a hypocrite?
KS
8:48 pm on Sunday, October 23, 2011
The man is not a hypocrite but is quite logical and has quite a bit of common sense. He had a riskier job when he was younger which is when most people tend to take more risk. As he got older he took on a more secure position because the older you get the harder it is to find employment. That is a fact of life whether we like it or not. He is entitled to collect social security and Medicare because he paid into that system for 25 years while in private industry. As far as the union goes, just because he worked for one doesn't mean he liked the union or the work. Unions tend to stifle competition and innovation by rewarding mediocrity and protecting poor performance. Look at the teaching profession. High performing teachers aren't paid any more than poor performing teachers and personnel decisions tend to be based mostly on seniority and tenure. I have seen that scenario play out year after year in my children's schools.
Mike
9:24 pm on Sunday, October 23, 2011
@Alla: FYI, public workers also pay into SS and Medicare; your post claims otherwise, thus catapulting the propaganda. I believe if he were a man of principle, he would have found a job, any job, that was non-union and non-gummint. I will agree that in some union environments, strong performance is under-rewarded. I will also say that if a student doesn't like her grade and decides to say "Mr Smith grabbed my ass" I'd sure want a union defending me (actually, tenure helps, too, since a non-tenured teacher would be dismissed on the spot without any due process). And if you think such false accusations don't happen, you are wrong.
Said man also has done absolutely nothing to help change the system he so hates; never been to a town meeting, I don't even think he votes.
I suppose someone who's anti-abortion and works at an abortion clinic would likewise not be a hypocrite?
Indirectly reminds me of a parent who complained that the school budget was bloated, wasteful, and secretive, and he was voting it down. I asked if he looked at the check register, budget details, etc., that were on the web site, and if he had, to point out the waste. He chortled, "I don't have time for that!" and stormed away, realizing that his claim was based on hearsay. BTW, he had a strong financial background and could have volunteered to help ferret out the waste.
I also know a public school teacher whose kids went to Catholic schools because public schools were so immoral.
Moe Larky
7:36 pm on Sunday, October 23, 2011
Malcolm from Mahwah is a moron, mike you have a better chance teaching a pig to sing than having hom understand
KS
8:32 pm on Sunday, October 23, 2011
Great, another "if you can't understand me you're the idiot" comment. Try making sense then everyone will understand you.
Moe Larky
8:37 pm on Sunday, October 23, 2011
Mike has been making sense, you & malcolm choose to ignore the facts..
KS
9:09 pm on Sunday, October 23, 2011
Which facts are we ignoring??? Things aren't black and white. There are many facts out there and you can twist them any way you want to support whatever belief you have or conclusion you have already reached. Isn't that what an attorney does in court?
Mike
8:58 pm on Sunday, October 23, 2011
Thanks, Moe. There are a handful of us that have actually worked in both the public and private sector. Most of the haters refuse to try teaching for a week so they can have a better view of what goes on (e.g., I don't know a single teacher who works 9-3; I know one who works 5am - 5pm, and many who work 6:30am - 3pm, then work at home). One moron once posted (not here) that teachers work half the year (his reasoning? 180 days is half of 365). Most private sector workers I know get 3-4 weeks vacation, another 12 or so holidays, sick, personal, and are able to collect disability if needed (teachers cannot). Add that up and it gets close to 180 days. And yes, I know many work evenings and weekends. I don't know anyone making $40K who does that; it's mostly managers making $75K+. Bottom line is: if it's so $%^#ing lucrative, why don't they do it???
I have to finish plans for the week and some grading.
Compare teaching and babysitting:
http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2011/02/23/if-teachers-are-mere-babysitters-pay-them-accordingly/
What teachers REALLY make
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxsOVK4syxU
What do students and blueberries have in common?
http://teachers.net/gazette/JUN02/vollmer.html
KS
9:58 pm on Sunday, October 23, 2011
Funny how the grass is always greener on the other side. Likewise, if your job is so bad, so underpaid and overwhelming switch to the private sector garden of Eden and reap the financial rewards. By the way, last week Washington DC was declared as the area with the highest median income in the country thanks to all of the politicians and lobbyists, and all of the federal employees earning compensation that averaged $126,369 last year.
Moe Larky
9:06 pm on Sunday, October 23, 2011
Alla remember ...you can read these posts and respond because in the first 12 years of your selfish life TEACHERS educated you!
Moe Larky
9:21 pm on Sunday, October 23, 2011
Mike i read and watched those posts, if only the haters hefe would do the same they might just understand. I am not a teacher, however i have children and see the impact your profession has ..Let me take this moment to say thankyou for choosing your profession.
KS
9:24 pm on Sunday, October 23, 2011
I see they didn't do much for you during your 12 years since you can't seem to muster anything more coherent than namecalling.
Moe Larky
10:02 pm on Sunday, October 23, 2011
Truth hurts huh? Youre position i cant have what a union employee gets IS selfish!!
KS
5:03 am on Monday, October 24, 2011
Yes, I am pining away for a union job yet it's the union screaming and yelling that they don't have enough and want the wall street salaries. They don't want the athlete or Hollywood salaries just the Wall Street ones. After all Wall Street rich are all evil rich because they don't play by the same Obama and union playbook but the Hollywood, athlete rich are great people because they parrot the same lines as the unions. Besides how would you know the truth, all you do is parrot what everyone else is saying.
Paquas
11:03 pm on Sunday, October 23, 2011
Privitize the system? You would have the same mess that exists with insurance companies running the medical system. Basically that is the way that the entire education system is going-- it will be run by corporate America and they will be in it solely for the money.
KS
4:58 am on Monday, October 24, 2011
Yes, the government has done a great job of running social security, medicare, FNMA, social services, FEMA, the green industry investments and frankly every thing they touch. At the rate we are going we will be turning into another Soviet Union with the government running everthing. That system lasted 70 years or and then it fell apart.
Bruce Knuckle
7:05 am on Monday, October 24, 2011
Alla, why dont you go sleep on the sidewalk in NY with all of the other entitlists
Moe Larky
8:03 am on Monday, October 24, 2011
Wow Alla, for a person that was quick to label others as "insulters" YOU sure like to take that path. I bet youre not even from this country! Bruce is right, youre an entitlist .
KS
9:03 am on Monday, October 24, 2011
Wow, a cognitive thinker and a xenophobe. Try reading your history. This country was founded and populated by people from other countries.
Moe Larky
9:35 am on Monday, October 24, 2011
Yes im fearfull of people like yourself that want to extract the rights established and fought for by true Americans.The founding fathers did one cery important thing that you obviously cannot and that isvto renounce ALL loyalty to the contry they fled from and express love and admiration for tge newly founded Country lending full support to its Government. You choose to attack all facets of Govt including the employees and when someone calls you on it the Xenophobe word is thrown out. Since you decided to claim history as the backup, try relearning the facts surrounding the industrial revolution and the birth of unions. Read up on how hard working people from other countries who pledged their love of America were. mistreated and needed the very system you. speak against .Learn about the Manhattan shirt Company fire (one example) instead of spewing insults and hate filled crap. Bottom line if ya dont like or agree with how it works here, no one is making you stay! !!
KS
1:18 pm on Monday, October 24, 2011
Last I recall criticisim of the government was not a crime but something called free speech. Try reading the constituion. If you can't handle opinions views or ideas different from your own then you are in the wrong country. Try moving to China, Venezuela or Iran. I hear they actually jail and even kill people who dare to criticize the Government there. Sounds like a place you might enjoy.
MOE LARKY
7:42 pm on Monday, October 24, 2011
Opinions are one thing, you spew nonfactual garbage and as for questioning the govt ...where did that come into play?? Unfortunately you are just an unreasonable agitator
michael cassella
12:16 am on Tuesday, October 25, 2011
Alla: I have been following your comments and If anyone is intolerant of the opinions of others, it's you. Let's go back to the beginning when you were commenting on the FL teachers' union. You comment on how the teachers boo-hoo about all the extra hours that they put in beyond their contractual time and mention the fact that a lot of jobs require overtime. The one big difference in the teachers doing extra work beyond the normal hours and other jobs is that in the other jobs the workers submit a voucher and get paid for those hours. Teachers do not. In this economy, a lot of teachers have put out their own money for classroom supplies and other things to keep their classes running. I personally, (and yes, Alla, I am a Fair Lawn teacher and damn pround of it) put out over $200 of my own money so my kids would have dictionaires to use in class.
As to your comment about the teachers' "entitlement attitude", we work for everything we get. Granted our stupid governor makes it sound like our pension system is robbing the state blind, but each one of us has money taken out of each paycheck for our pension. My pension deduction comes to almost $300 per check. Maybe you should listen to someone other than Governor Fat Butt.
One last comment: you said to Deborah that you were glad that your children did not have her as a teacher. Well, Alla honey, I am quite sure that Deborah is also very glad that she doesn't have your kids in class either so she doesn't have to put up you!
KS
5:44 am on Tuesday, October 25, 2011
Yeah, yeah, I know anyone who doesn't agree with you or cave in to your demands is unreasonable, stupid and intolerant. Where have I heard that before. You want better contracts and higher pay and you are willing to use the kids to get it. Nothing high minded about that. By the way your pension contributions don't begin to cover the cost of the actual pensions at the time of payout. Guess who pays for the rest on top of Social Security. It is a system that nearly bankrupt two of the three US automakers until the taxpayers bailed them out as well. But no one seems to bring that up. The bottom line is you are entitled to negotiate and demand whatever terms you want and the board which represents the taxpayers is entitled to push back. It is a negotiation and a give and take. Using kids to get your terms is dirty but has been done before and I have no doubt will happen again and again.
MOE LARKY
7:29 am on Tuesday, October 25, 2011
Alla you are as shallow as a puddle in the street! You cant be so stupid as to believe the pension contributions sit in a safety deposit box somewhere waiting for a retirement to occur!!!! Obviously they are pooled together and invested where they grow, then again .You are a hater and no different than any other bigot, instead of race religon or creed you discriminate agsonst the public empolyee. Guess you have notging to do in a constructive sense!
KS
9:27 am on Tuesday, October 25, 2011
If you are the face of the public employee system, this country doesn't stand a chance.
MOE LARKY
9:37 am on Tuesday, October 25, 2011
The omission of an intelligent response says it all
KS
10:17 am on Tuesday, October 25, 2011
Hard to respond with anything intelligent to ignorant rants.
MOE LARKY
10:46 am on Tuesday, October 25, 2011
True, thats why i choose not to respond to you
MOE LARKY
11:52 am on Tuesday, October 25, 2011
Malcolm you fail to acknowledge one important factor. The Governing body sits across the negotiation table and has AGREED to the salries and benefits you loath. These teachers arent writing their own ticket.
MOE LARKY
12:01 pm on Tuesday, October 25, 2011
AND your classification of the "avg. Voter" as underpaid or ubemployed is unsupported.
MOE LARKY
12:59 pm on Tuesday, October 25, 2011
My point exactly, no facts just rhetoric from you ...come on: support you statement about salaries and beni' s being so under the level of teacherd
KS
1:41 pm on Tuesday, October 25, 2011
Insults and threats have worked well all these years. Why stop now.
MOE LARKY
1:45 pm on Tuesday, October 25, 2011
Thats not fact! Reference where you found these numbers Did you extract the benis from a contract ? How about the very people you claim to speak for have passed the schools budget referendum every time its put to a vote....last tome to the tune of 86 mill!!! By the way, why so interested in Fair Lawn anyways? Shouldnt you be pushin anti mall signs into the ground
MOE LARKY
2:23 pm on Tuesday, October 25, 2011
Nope not a teacher. And dont know much about roaches either, always lived in a clean environment....I guess you got to do something between unemployment checks
MOE LARKY
2:35 pm on Tuesday, October 25, 2011
By the way i looked at your " evidence links " as with all professional agitators, its incomplete. Wheres rference to the beni' s?
MOE LARKY
3:00 pm on Tuesday, October 25, 2011
Didnt think so........
MOE LARKY
3:16 pm on Tuesday, October 25, 2011
Still no hard evidence on benefits....just stupid comments ..I have to take that as a concession. You dont know and dont have any facts regarding the contractual benefits, just links to general govt supplied information......The same Govt you carry on about " should be privatized" .
Bruce Knuckle
7:08 pm on Tuesday, October 25, 2011
Malcom, it good to see that Mahwah accepts nitwits in their community. You must be excited with all of the colorful leaves falling in the street. .....Moe, you are correct,he presents no evidence. Must have been denied tenure a few times.